The Optimal Life with Nate Haber

Nate Haber’s Optimal Life Podcast inspires conversations with extraordinary people, with the mission to enhance and enrich the lives of my listeners through thought-provoking conversation.

On this episode, Nate interviews SYB CEO R Blank about mitigating the dangers of EMF radiation.



Nate Haber 0:00
The optimal life. What’s up, Mr. Blank? How are you?

R Blank 0:05
Great, Nate, thanks so much for having me.

Nate Haber 0:07
Thank you for being here. So this is an important topic. When I look at all the issues that we’re dealing with as technology is expanding at the speed of light, or maybe even faster than the speed of light. I don’t know what that is. But technology continues to expand at a rapid, feverish pitch. We’re caught in this world where, hey, this is here to stay. The radio frequency, the waves, the magnetic, the electric fields, these are all here to stay. And that is really become a part of your mission. Talk to us about exactly what it let’s start here. What exactly is EMF to find that for us?

R Blank 0:47
Sure. Great question. So EMF stands for electromagnetic fields, also sometimes called electromagnetic radiation, it’s a form of energy, a form of radiation that is comprised of both electric and magnetic forces. And there so EMF exists on a spectrum, there’s a whole bunch of different kinds. And right in the middle, there’s sunlight, that is visible light, the stuff, you know, we see everyday when we go outside. And that is a form of EMF. Now there are certain forms of EMF with more energy than visible light. Those include things like X rays, and gamma rays. And those have so much energy, that they can knock electrons loose from your cells, and cause immediate and severe damage, which is why everyone knows you want to have as little of that stuff as possible. Now, there’s certain forms of EMF with less energy than visible light. And these include the things that you were just talking about radio frequency, then there’s low frequency, magnetic, low frequency, electric, microwave, and so forth. Now these don’t have that same level of energy that I was just talking about, like X rays have. So for a long time, it was assumed that these forms of EMF were benign, they were a nerd, they would not harm you. And what science has increasingly shown over the last 100 years, is that those assumptions were false. That even low doses of this stuff does impact our bodies, and our health and in fact, impacts all living things. When people like you invite people like me to talk about EMF on a show, we’re talking about those forms of EMF, that are called non ionizing, right, again, the ones with less energy than visible light. Now, just for a little bit of perspective, for essentially, the entire history of life on Earth, the only EMF we were exposed to was sunlight. Now the earth has a small magnetic field. So that’s part of it. Lightning is another source. But really, all we’re talking about is sunlight. And it didn’t really start to change until the middle of the 19th century with the invention of the light bulb. So all of this human made EMF that we are exposed to a growing amount every single day. This is only in the last, you know, 170 years before that life on Earth was not exposed to these forces. Well,

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Nate Haber 3:11
in you weren’t exposed to a lot. You were exposed to this whole world growing up because your father was a forefront, an expert in this field. I don’t even think you guys weren’t even allowed to use a microwave growing up. Is that correct?

R Blank 3:24
That’s yeah, that’s true. We didn’t have a microwave. I didn’t have a cell phone until after I graduated college.

Nate Haber 3:30
So yeah, let’s start let’s talk about I want to talk about some of these reels, by

R Blank 3:33
the way, I still don’t have I still don’t have a microwave that hasn’t changed. You still don’t have a microwave. Let’s

Nate Haber 3:37
start there. I want to talk about some of these real world real life examples that everyday people that are listening to this can relate to and understand what the risks are. And what are some of the solutions. So let’s start with microwave. Why no microwave?

R Blank 3:52
So microwaves are we so yeah, actually, I should have said one more thing, and then I’ll get into this question. So the forms of EMF that we’re talking about, they come from everything that runs on power, and everything that communicates wirelessly, so that includes power lines and your refrigerator all the way up to cell phones and Wi Fi. Microwaves are a big source of health risk for a couple of reasons. One, so they use microwaves literally, it’s in the name microwaves to cook so very similar kind of radiation as a cell phone, except with so much power that they can actually cook. So we’re talking about super high levels of this EMF radiation, and they leak, right so just so when it doesn’t just stay in the oven. In fact, a lot of people don’t realize they’re allowed to leak at the time of sale. And if you read a certain amount, and if you read the manuals, you’ll see that in order to prevent them from leaking more over time. You have to get them serviced every year. But I’ve never met anyone who has ever had their microwave seal serviced, if that so that’s One risk. The other risk is, as I mentioned, not only is wireless radiation, microwave radiation, the source of this power is a microwave ovens require a tremendous amount of power to create those microwaves that we’re talking about, like the AC power that plugs into it. So with microwave ovens, you have two huge sources of EMF, you have the microwaves themselves, which are in the microwave frequency. And then you have the low frequency fields that come just from the power source required to generate those microwaves. And in fact, a lot of people don’t know this either. If you read the manual, they advise the pregnant women not use them. Which should be a pretty, pretty significant Simon.

Nate Haber 5:43
Yes. Let me ask you. So there’s a couple things going on with the microwave? Is it is the risk associated with being too close? Just physically, if you’re standing next to the microwave? You push 30 seconds push start, the frequency start emitting out from the microwave to you. So is there a risk there by just standing where you’re standing? how close you are to the microwave? And also, is there an added risk to the food that’s being heated?

R Blank 6:11
So the the, the answer to the first part of the question is, yes, the closer you are to any source of EMF, so whether we’re talking about a microwave oven, or your cell phone, or the power transformer on the pole in front of your house, the closer you are, the higher the power of your exposure, and thus, the higher the health risk that you have from that exposure. Now, in terms of the second part of the question, my understand this is outside of my area of expertise, my understanding is that there is growing evidence that microwave ovens do alter the molecular structure of the food that we eat, but I am not personally familiar with with any of that research. Okay.

Nate Haber 6:53
So your expertise, of course, is on the EMF that’s being emitted into the atmosphere into our everyday lives. Yes. So if somebody is using a microwave if you don’t use one, correct, what are some, some tips, some safety protocol that they

R Blank 7:14
Yeah, I mean, that the if you’re going to use one, the only safety protocol is get as far away from it as possible when it’s on. And I’m talking like, if possible, the next room, you know, the the fields that come off of microwave ovens, and people can if they wanted to by a meter, they could see for themselves just how high these levels are. But they are really high levels that come off of microwave, okay, so if you want to

Nate Haber 7:37
talk to us are in practical terms, we’re using our microwave, I use my microwave all the all the time. My stomach’s turning right now talking to you to be quite honest. So we use our microwaves all the time my kids are running around, they’re pushing, putting plates in there warming up their food using the microwave. I don’t know where people are standing, I don’t know how close or how far they are away from the microwave. I don’t know how far I am away. What are some of these real life risks that we could be potentially exposing yourself to?

R Blank 8:07
Well, the reason they advise pregnant women against using microwaves is because of the known risks of miscarriage and birth defects. But there isn’t a simple answer to your question. Because what we’re talking when what the science, the story, the science is drawing for us. And we’re now talking about just just so people don’t think, oh, you know, ours on this show, he’s talking about 10 Random studies, the science, the body of science is now you know, it’s decades old, we’re talking about 1000s of high quality research studies on the various health effects of various types of EMF. And what the science is showing us is that we see measurable outcomes in almost every biological system where we investigate. So we see obviously, everyone knows about the increased rates of tumors and cancers. But it’s just so people are aware, we’re not just talking about brain tumors, because that’s that tends to get a lot of press coverage because of where we hold our phones. But we see a growing amount of research into thyroid cancers into prostate cancers into colorectal cancers. But again, it’s not just cancers. I mentioned rates of miscarriage rates of birth defects. We have infertility and sub fertility. In particularly in men, we have endocrine system disruption, which manifests most most often for people in terms of sleep disruption, because of disruption and how melatonin is produced. We see lots of lots and lots of different health effects. Again, in almost every biological system where it’s measured. Do

Nate Haber 9:48
you have specific statistical data that you could reference right now without looking at it like give us an example of the increase in these types of defects or issues that People are experiencing.

R Blank 10:01
Well. So there’s one study. And you know, I don’t pretend to be a walking encyclopedia, but there are a few that that stand out. So there’s one study out of Kaiser Permanente that showed that women who had increased rates of EMF exposure while they were pregnant, had a 2.72 times greater risk of miscarrying. Now. That’s, that’s, that’s huge. And that’s Kaiser Permanente. The the, the, the some of the stats. So some of the studies that that I like to talk about in these types of interviews are the ones that kind of explain why. Why this one, right, because I was just saying, we see the negative health outcomes in so many different biological systems. So why is it that EMF has the such a broad range of impacts. And there’s a set of studies from two researchers back in the 90s, they were studying cordless phones, because it was the 90s. But it’s very similar radiation to cell phones. And they exposed DNA to this to cordless phone radiation. And what they found is that the rates of strand breaks in DNA increased, just from very short exposures, we’re talking about 15 minute exposures led to significant increase in strand breaks. A strand break is when the actual strand in the DNA breaks. Now when one strand when I’m sorry, when both strands break, the cell will kill itself, right? Because there’s nothing I can do. But when one strand breaks, the cell will try to recreate that strand from the other strand, right DNA is formed of that double helix, the two strands, and so it’ll try to recreate the destroyed strand from the the intact strand. And that is the mechanism by which mutations occur and disease begins. And so when you increase the rates of stranded breaks, you are increasing the rates of the opportunity for mutations to occur, and then of course, for disease to incur. Now, another another finding of this study was that the increased rates of strand breaks persisted for over an hour after the exposure. So just a 15 minute exposure to this led to significant increases in DNA strand breaks at rates that persisted after the exposure ended. And the reason I mentioned this study, in particular, it’s a very important study, it’s been replicated many times. But the reason I mentioned this one is because DNA is in every cell of every living thing. So when you have a map, a mechanism, that that is that clear that it impacts every biological system, you start to see how EMF can impact so many different biological systems of so many different kinds of animals, and insects and trees, not just not just humans. Now, there is another study that showed that women who had increased rates of EMF exposure again, while they were pregnant, but they they didn’t have miscarriage. Fortunately, there was an 80% greater incidence of ADHD by the children early in their lives. So that that so that shows that shows a negative impact, but not manifesting for several years afterwards. But again, that was 80% greater risk of the child forming ADHD early in their childhood, but obviously not at birth, just by having increased rates of EMF exposure.

Nate Haber 13:39
That’s that’s troublesome information. That’s a troublesome statistic. If I’m following what you’re saying here, is that this EMF, while it can cause obvious things like mutations and cancers and miscarry miscarriages, things that you can physically see touch, feel it may be having, or it really appears to be having a negative impact on other things such as the neurological system.

R Blank 14:06
Yes, it that’s when it’s impacting children’s

Nate Haber 14:08
brains while they’re in the womb, and is what you’re saying?

R Blank 14:11
Yes. That’s, that’s the point I’m trying to make when I say it impacts every biological system where we look for results.

Nate Haber 14:21
So why are all of these things that are emitting this type of frequency, this type of energy? These fields, why are they not being regulated more closely? Well, that’s a million dollar question.

R Blank 14:37
Right? Yeah. Well, I think we need a three hour conversation just to get into that. But let me try to break it down. So first off, as I said, you know, we come from a legacy. And when I say legacy, I’m talking about society’s legacy of, of centuries of believing this stuff was inert, that this was benign, that this was harmless stuff. And so that’s kind of the assumption. In fact, it surprises a lot of people to learn. Not only that, that’s what my father was taught when he went to graduate school. It’s what he was teaching at Columbia University Medical School until he learned otherwise in the 1980s. So my father being one of the world’s leading researchers on this, it surprises people to realize that he was busy, you know, in the 1970s, teaching future doctors that this stuff was benign. But that’s, that’s, that’s the history there. Now, there’s all sorts of sources of EMF, like we were just talking about, right? I mean, we’re talking about everything, from your refrigerator to

Nate Haber 15:37
interrupt you are I’m sorry, let me just interrupt you right there. For people that are listening, your father was teaching this, but he was teaching it was benign, because that’s what the science was showing. That’s what we believed was going the only thing people were worried about were the X rays. The real high.

R Blank 15:51
Yeah, the ionizing. Right. Yeah. The ones with more energy than visible light. That’s correct. Got it. Go ahead. Yep. Yeah. So stepping back, right. There’s all sorts of sources of this stuff, right? We’re not just talking about cell phones, we’re talking about cell phones and Wi Fi, we’re talking about kitchen blenders and refrigerators, right? Their power lines that feed all this stuff, right. So there’s tons of sources of this stuff, only some of them are regulated at all, there’s whole classes of these sources that have no regulation whatsoever. So a good example of that is power lines in the United States, there is no consumer for consumers, as opposed to, you know, power plant workers, for regular consumers, you sitting at home in your house, there is absolutely no regulation, determining how much EMF you can be exposed to from the power line outside of your house or the wiring inside your house. Now there are so there’s whole gaps in the regulatory system. Now there are certain exposures that are regulated. And a good example of that is cell phones. We know that there are cell phone radiation standards. Now there’s a whole bunch of reasons why those regulations are faulty. But let me just start from the starting point of explaining the standard that it’s supposed to be based on, right, we know that a certain amount of this EMF can cook that’s the premise of a microwave oven, that there’s a certain amount of power of these of these fields that can burn you because they can they’re they’re powerful enough to cook. And the what cellphone radiation regulations exist for is to prevent that. Right. So they are designed to prevent your phone from cooking you from heating your tissue, because that’s allowed in phones that a lot of scramble you and egg. Exactly. That’s the entire point. So everything that I’m talking about, right, the increased rates of miscarriage, the increased rates of brain tumors, the increased rates of anxiety, and sleep disruption, those all happen at levels far lower than what causes immediate damage. So the regulations that exist are designed to protect against the immediate damage of burns. And that is it. And the the, what the science is showing is that there’s a whole wide range of negative health outcomes at lower levels far, far, far lower than what trigger the thermal effect.

Nate Haber 18:15
Well, see, there you go. You wrapped it up in three minutes instead of three hours. Yeah.

R Blank 18:21
Yeah, I guess that’s my special skill there. But no, there’s, I mean, there’s a whole lot more reasons why regular regulations are faulty, but that from a starting point, they’re not that even if every regulation in the world worked, they’re still not designed to protect you against the types of health effects that we’re talking about here.

Nate Haber 18:38
So that’s really become your mission is protecting people shield your body, that’s your company shield your body from these harmful energies from these harmful frequencies, etc. Yes. So talk about some of the things that people can do then to protect themselves from these everyday energies.

R Blank 18:59
So we’ve covered one already, which is distance, right distance really matters. And we talked about it in terms of how far you stand away from your microwave oven. But distance really matters with EMF, right? Because the power of your exposure diminishes exponentially with distance. So I’ll give you a practical example here. Here I have a phone. I don’t know if people are watching this on video or not. But here I have a phone and it’s an inch away from my body. And now I move it two inches away from my body. The power of my exposure has just dropped 75% by going from one inch to two inches, and that keeps happening as you double the distance and that’s across the board. That’s all forms of EMF

Nate Haber 19:37
all forms of EMF, one inch equates to 75% Less

R Blank 19:42
Oh no. So doubling. So if you double the distance, you cut the power by 75% You’re

Nate Haber 19:48
five feet away and then you go 10 feet away. You’ve just reduced your exposure by 75%.

R Blank 19:53
That is correct. So distance really matters. Conversely, what that means is, you know proximity is really a big source of risk. So you shouldn’t be carrying your phone in your pocket, you shouldn’t be carrying your lap wearing using your laptop in your lap, you want to keep as much distance as possible between you and the source of EMF, when you are using that kind of technology. The second is to just have less of this stuff in your life, as you were talking about during the introduction, technology is exploding. It’s, it’s I mean, we all know everyone has a cell phone. But increasingly, all these things that used to be dumb in our houses are now smart. And what that means is they become sources of EMF radiation. Now, it could be that, you know, maybe a smart thermostat really adds a lot of value to your life. But do you, you know, think about it, do you? Do I really need this? Or can I just get up off my butt and go adjust the temperature? Smart refrigerators Do you really need that they make, I swear they make now a smart tampon. There’s no reason on earth for you to do it. So my point being just use let you buy less of this stuff. So less of it is in your house, and you’ll have less of these exposures. So those are the two most powerful things that people can do is to maximize the distance between you and your EMF, and minimize the number of sources of EMF in your life. Now, once you get past that, there are EMF protection products that you can consider using that like the ones that I make and sell at shield your body. And those are what I like to call the second line of defense, right? Because I really don’t like it when companies sell these as silver bullets that just fix your EMF problem, there is no fixing the EMF problem, there is no living a life without EMF exposure anymore. And now it’s about minimizing it. And the best ways of minimizing it are what I just said, minimizing your use and maximizing distance. But there are been reasons why you’d want EMF protection. So a good example, here is the phone in the pocket, which I already said you shouldn’t do. That is a huge no matter how many cell towers You see, when you look out your window, right? The phone in your pocket is still going to be one of your biggest if not the biggest one of your source exposures, because of how powerful that device is, and how close it is to you. When it’s in your pocket.

Nate Haber 22:18
How powerful is that device?

R Blank 22:20
Or oh, like real? I mean, what what kind of units? So here,

Nate Haber 22:24
let me help a standard iPhone or

R Blank 22:27
no? Yeah, yeah. So think about it this way, right? This phone has a cell modem that has to be able to communicate over several miles, right, because that’s how far away the tower can be. But it doesn’t just have the cell modem because it also has a Wi Fi card. And then it doesn’t just have those because it also has Bluetooth. And then it doesn’t only have that, but it also has NFC, which is used for things like Apple Pay and Google Pay near field is no she stands for Near Field Communications. Okay. And so they’re each phone is multiple separate sources of EMF radiation.

Nate Haber 23:08
Multiple layers, it’s like EMF on top of EMF on top of EMF

R Blank 23:12
exactly right. So you shouldn’t be carrying this device in your pocket or your bra. Or you should put it into airplane mode if you do, but then there are people who need it, right? They either they they don’t want to do what I’m talking about. Or they can’t write they need to carry their phone for work, for instance, and they can’t keep it in airplane mode and they don’t have anywhere else to carry it. So that’s when a product like my phone pouch. Makes sense. Because my phone pouch makes it safer to carry your phone in your pocket or on your belt by deflecting radiation away from your body while you’re carrying your phone. Yeah, so that’s an example product

Nate Haber 23:50
on your website, the phone pouch now this is just it just rest up against the phone Correct? are you placing the phone in a in an actual put the phone in the pouch? Okay, the phone goes in the pouch. And then the pouch is acting as a buffer between your pants or your inside of your leg? Yep, the actual phone itself. So what exactly is what kind of materials is that that’s allowing this type of protection.

R Blank 24:13
So all of my products, except for the headsets, which work a little differently. They all use EMF shielding, right so this is technology that goes back almost 200 years since Michael Faraday invented the first Faraday cage and what he showed is that when you weave conductive metal, certain conductive metals into certain specific patterns, you can block and deflect EMF radiation in the other direction, just the same way that a window shade blocks and deflect sunlight. And so the materials that we use in the apparel is silver. So like the underwear, the bandana, the neck gator those we use silver thread woven into the fabrics to form the Faraday shield. And in the non apparel products like the foam pouch. Generally we use a nickel cobalt copper alloy. And so in the case of the phone pouch, we have the the rear of the pouch is lined with the shielding material, and the front of the pouch isn’t. And so your phone can continue communicating, even as the back of the pouch is deflecting the radiation away from your body. And all of these by the way, all of what I’m talking about here, not only is based on universally accepted science, it’s also demonstrable and measurable. Right? So we have laboratory testing that supports all of our product claims. But I also have I’ve written up a short book a free guide that explains to people how you know what types of tools they could use, and how to use them to verify my product claims for themselves.

Nate Haber 25:44
Now, when you reference that book, is that the overpowered or is it something else?

R Blank 25:48
No, no overpower. It’s like a real book

Nate Haber 25:51
that you and your father collaborated on? Yes. Okay.

R Blank 25:55
Yeah, no, the book I’m talking about. It’s, it’s like a 70 page ebook that explains to people what types of equipment they can use for EMF testing, how best to do testing, how to understand the units from testing, and so forth. And that’s available on my website. For me for free.

Nate Haber 26:11
You mentioned taking the phone out of your pocket you might have I don’t know if I misheard you, but it made me think of something where you see these women putting their phones up in their sports bras or Yeah, it’s saying what you’re saying with with the risk of breast cancer with the risk of cancer and radiation, all the stuff? Why in the world? Would you want to put something up there on your chest? Yeah,

R Blank 26:31
no, you shouldn’t. And by the way, it’s not just women, I see men carrying their phones in their suit, breast pockets. And so that is basically as close as putting it into your bra. But no, you should. When I say don’t carry it in your pocket, I really mean don’t carry it in your pocket or your bra or anywhere directly on your body.

Nate Haber 26:50
Wow. Okay. Okay, interesting. So, you mentioned this also, earlier, we’ve talked about microwave, we’ve talked about phones, you’re giving us tips on what to do distance is clearly the most important. Yes. And then having the second line of defense is really important. Because let’s be honest, you have to live your everyday life still. Yes, that’s where your product line comes in and protects people. And, and you have I mean, even these headphones that we’re wearing our I’ve got microphones, I’ve got wires all around, we got the computer, the laptop. I mean, this is probably a pretty high EMF environment I’m sitting in right now.

R Blank 27:25
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s entirely possible. That’s one of the reasons why I’m such a big advocate of testing, because that’s really the only way to know what the exposures are. Because EMF, as you know, as everyone who’s listening knows, it’s invisible. It’s odorless, it’s tasteless, you can’t touch it. So I mean, you can certainly say, Well, I’m right next to a phone, my levels are high. But once you get beyond those obvious culprits, it’s really hard to know what your exposures are, unless you learn how to test. But again, I would emphasize to people, you know, the goal here isn’t zero EMF, because that is an impossible goal. And you obviously get a lot of value out of, you know, sitting in front of that microphone with those headsets on looking into this monitor. Right. So that’s, that’s something that’s worth it to you. Yeah, you might want to minimize, see if there’s stuff you can do to minimize your exposure in that scenario, but you’re not going to stop doing it. Right. You can’t stop living your life. So my message is to be aware of this stuff, be aware of how it works, and take the reasonable steps to cut it out. But you can’t get you just can’t eliminate it. That’s that’s an impossible standard.

Nate Haber 28:30
Absolutely. So you’ve met again, we’ve talked about some of the everyday things, microwave phones, etc. Towers, you mentioned towers, power lines. What in the world is talked to me about 5g in the towers? What What exactly is 5g? And are we at risk with this new world of 5g?

R Blank 28:49
Well, I mean, I think that my message is that we’re at risk from EMF. And so 5g is just another form of EMF. So it’s clearly a risk. But we don’t know exactly how much of a risk because it was deployed without long term, any long term, even medium term testing, because that’s how they deploy these types of technology. We didn’t know what Wi Fi was going to do when they deployed Wi Fi, we learned it five and 10. And 15 years later, once we had time to catch up with the science we’d same for Bluetooth, same for today with air pods. We have no idea with the impact on the generation of children wearing these things all day long or hours a day. What that’s going to be in five and 10 and 15 and 20 years. We don’t know that because they released the technology before the science is done. But to answer your question, what is 5g? at a at a kind of I guess at a business level? It is the next generation of cell phone network. Right? So we had 4g for a while before that we had 3g 5g is the new one. What’s different about it is that it operates at a whole set of frequencies that have never before been used in consumer applications. So the regulatory Authorities have opened up new spectrum is what it’s called. And so the the frequencies of EMF that are in use now, but increasingly will be used over the coming 510 years, those have never before been used in consumer applications before. So we don’t know what it’s like to have people exposed to this stuff. But as I said, I think it’s pretty obvious based on an understanding of the research to date, that this is going to have impacts on our health, we just don’t know exactly what right because we see at different frequencies, we I mean, we see certain negative impacts at all frequencies, but at certain frequencies, we see clusters, right. So for instance, powerline EMF that is that is, that’s where we tend to see leukemia forming both in in children and in industrial plant workers. And people with high exposures to that we see leukemia, that’s really the only segment of the EMF spectrum where we see such a prevalence of leukemia. When FM radio came out, we we saw increased rates of melanoma coming from these exposures. Right. So that’s just a simple example. So as we move into new and new frequencies, my guess is we will see clusters of diseases that we’re not used to seeing. But overall, I think what’s obvious is that it is bioactive, it is going to continue to have impacts on our health, it’s, there’s no reason to think it’s any safer than 4g and 3g, I think, is maybe the short answer. So

Nate Haber 31:32
the question is not Is it harmful? The question is, how harmful is it? And we don’t know the answer to that. But why in the world, then? Are we allowing this without all the data and just throwing it out there? What’s the reason in support of going to a 5g network for all of us?

R Blank 31:51
Oh, for us,

Nate Haber 31:53
why are the companies why do we need to go to 5g?

R Blank 31:55
Oh, right. So okay, yeah, well, so the whole bait? Well, first off, it’s, you know, technology is kind of an unstoppable wave, as you were talking about in the intro. But what’s the practical purpose of 5g? Yeah, the practical purpose of 5g, they tried to sell it to us, like, oh, you can download a movie in five seconds. But literally, who needs to do that? The practical purpose for 5g is to connect many, many, many more devices to the Internet, right? We’ve talked already about how many more smart devices there are, how many more cell phones, there are, how many more smart cars there are. Each one of these things, if it’s connecting to the network is a node on the network. So that’s putting a strain on the network itself. The way network is engineered, it can only support a certain number of these nodes. And in short, 4g was running out. We couldn’t keep this rate of connected devices growing on the 4g infrastructure. So 5g,

Nate Haber 32:53
we like layman’s term language here at times. Your 4g was running out. So of course, it’s time for five and that yeah,

R Blank 33:00
and they’re already working on six g. G’s.

Nate Haber 33:04
So we just that’s how the thing is to our my pushback on that argument is, yeah, you’re you’re we’re being sold that you can download something in 510 seconds, whatever it is. I don’t want that download in five seconds if it’s going to give me 11 fingers. Yeah. You know, I

R Blank 33:21
think it’s a little late for you to worry about birth defects. But yeah, man. That’s colorful. I like it. Yeah, no I. And the thing is, is what people really need to realize is how each one of these things, it’s additive to the exposures we already have. It’s not like we live in a low EMF world, we live in a really high EMF world. And the more urban a place you live in, the higher an EMF world You are in. And so when we add more of these things to our lives, so it’s not just the new 5g phone, but it’s also the new 5g, home Wi Fi from Verizon, it’s the new 5g TV and the new 5g that car. Yeah, these are all new exposures that are coming on top of an already very high EMF load. And we don’t know what the impact is going to be of the cumulative exposures of all of this in five and 10 and 20 years, what’s important. What’s important to I think help ground people is to just try to think back 20 years or two when you were a kid, and what kinds of wireless devices did you have? Because, you know, in my bedroom, I had a radio and that was it. And you look around a room today, and a child’s room and that they may have a laptop, they’ll have a cell phone, they may have a tablet, there’s the home Wi Fi that’s coming in, and they have their air pods and all and so I say that just to help kind of paint for people like we didn’t grow up in the world. That’s today when it comes to EMF. This is a very different world already than what we grew up in and we’re moving towards every every year we’re moving towards more More and more and more of this stuff in the world and in our home environments. And now when it comes to the world, each of us individually have relatively little impact in terms like we’re not going to go out tomorrow and change cellphone radiation regulations, there are people who are working for that, and God bless them. But that you’re not going to love sitting at home listening to this podcast, you’re not going to then tomorrow, go out and change cellphone radiation regulations. But you can tomorrow, go out and change the EMF exposure of yourself and your loved ones in your own house or your own apartment.

Nate Haber 35:32
That’s perfectly said, and a great way to wrap up this conversation. I did want to ask a couple more things before we finish up.

I have to ask, I’d be foolish to not ask this. Kids you mentioned we don’t know what the effects are the air buds that this that iPads, kids are growing up on iPads kids are growing up on the tick tock generation now my kids have iPads they have so my oldest has a cell phone. Is it the same kind of approach? How do you what are you doing the kid sitting in front of his or her iPad?

R Blank 36:03
Wow. Yeah, I mean, so I mean, so I don’t pretend to tell parents how to parent. That is not something I’ve had to do myself. So when I say, Oh, just have your kid stop using the iPad? I know, that’s delusional, right. But you’re not just going to get you’re not going to accomplish that. I will say that this stuff is it’s it’s harmful. And there’s actually growing science outside of pure EMF. In fact, with some of this stuff, it’s even a little hard to tease apart, what negative health impact is caused by the EMF versus what negative health impact is caused by just learning on a screen. And so social media and Netflix and so forth. But we are seeing damage across ability to learn to memorize facts, spatial reasoning, we are seeing increased rates of anxiety across all young people, for sure, that’s Yeah, and so in general, your use of if I had a kid, I would be very, I would try, I would, I would be as creative as possible and trying to minimize their use of technology where that is feasible. Now, again, I’m not naive, and I’m not a Luddite. You have to engage with technology in order to engage with the world. And in order to learn how to navigate the world. You can’t learn the world anymore without going through a screen. But you definitely want to be as judicious as possible. But one thing I will say if people because I know people like hard and fast and simple answers, don’t give them air pods, make sure that they’re using wired headphones. Okay.

Nate Haber 37:45
wired headphones. Interesting.

R Blank 37:47
Yeah. As air air pods are Bluetooth, right, that’s the same radiation as Wi Fi, just with a little less power. And when they’re right there, they’re right up against the brain, there tend to be there for hours at a time, days in a row. And you’re talking about really big exposures in a really sensitive spot. And we don’t know what the health outcomes are going to be because it just they haven’t had time to measure it yet.

Nate Haber 38:10
Sure. I do have one final question for you. But before we get there, talk to us about your website and shield your We will link that in the show notes, website social media. And I believe you also have a fairly new podcast. So kind of touch on where people can find you your podcasts, etc.

R Blank 38:27
Thank you very much. Yeah, so Well, the website is shield, your And that shield your body all one word. And that’s where we have we have all of our products for sale. But we also have a ton of information. We have ton every 100 Yeah, hundreds of articles we have about I think it’s 10 ebooks, we have tons of webinar archives, we just have tons of free information, because education is central to our mission. Because this is not simple stuff. And we work constantly to try to figure out the easiest, and most effective ways to explain this to people. We’re also shield your body on YouTube and Instagram. So again, shield your body all one word. And yes, we just started season three of the healthier tech podcast. So that’s on all major platforms. It’s the healthier tech podcast, and that’s where we we touch on EMF, but we go beyond EMF to talk about issues stemming from our relationships with technology. Right? And I was kind of getting at that a little bit in the last answer there. But the we’re starting to see because of our just, I guess, our super deep relationship with technology and so many aspects of our lives. We see obviously that technology adds a tremendous amount of value, but it also creates harm and not just from EMF exposure. And so the goal of the healthier tech podcast is to talk with people who have some insight, some experience into teasing out how to use technology more mindfully so that we can get value out of it, but minimize the harm that we get as a result of working with it. So we have some really great and have yours. And again, that’s the healthier tech podcast.

Nate Haber 40:02
Beautiful. Like I said, we will link some of that in the show notes. Guys, if you want to learn more about R blank his company shield your body, take a look at the show notes, the links are all there. You can reach our his products, services, resources, there’s a ton of resources there. Final question for you. I know you said it, we can’t necessarily predict five years, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. But you’ve been in this game a long time. Essentially, since you were a young kid, your father was involved in this, you’ve been able to see how it’s progressed over time he was teaching something he thought was benign. It turns out it’s not. It turns out, there’s a lot more risk than we had anticipated. And now the next generation comes up, here’s our Ark comes up helps him with the book, greed, your own business, your own mission, your own company, your teaching and spreading things. So this has been going on for decades and decades and decades. If you can look into your crystal ball 1020 30 years out, what do you see our society looking like in terms of the EMF, the radiation, the frequencies? And you know, what is it? I know, it’s a loaded question, but what does it look like?

R Blank 41:12
Well, I wish I were a little more optimistic in answering this question for you. But that is not what I see. I see. Well, I guess there is an optimistic part of this, which is awareness of EMF as an issue is definitely growing when I got into EMF, which was about 10 years ago was when I helped my father right overpowered right, and I launched my first product the following year 2013, I would come up in Amazon in the same set of search results as ghost detectors, right? Because EMF is part of ghost hunting or something like that. And, and and you know, I go to parties, and people ask what I do. And there’d be tinfoil hat jokes and stuff like that. That doesn’t happen anymore. Now people are like, oh, yeah, I’ve been worried I probably shouldn’t carry my phone in my pocket. I’ve been thinking about that, or Oh, yeah, I saw that story on CNN. Yeah, that’s been worrying. So there’s definitely an increase in acceptance and awareness of EMF as a health risk. And at the same time, the forces that are exposing us to this, they are just growing and growing and growing and growing, and they are tied to so much economic value. And there’s so much inertia on behalf of on the part of consumers that I think the levels that we are going to be exposed to in five and 10 years time are going to be much, much higher than they are now. And more people will be leaving urban areas to reduce their exposures. But increasingly even going into rural areas doesn’t get you the kind of freedom from exposure that it used to, because of satellite networks and other types of wireless infrastructure that are really spreading over the entire planet. So and as a result, we’re going to continue to see increases in the health effects that we already know we are linked to EMF and and we’re just going to just going to learn how to deal with it, right, because that’s how our society works with our increasing exposure to toxins in general. It’s not just EMF, there are so many toxins. And we’re just learning to live with all of these chronic diseases, instead of working to eliminate the sources of those diseases.

Nate Haber 43:37
performance status, sorry, man, hey, well, it’s perfectly wrapped up and summarized. And it’s just about being mindful. Like you mentioned, you can’t necessarily go and change a regulation, you’re not going to change the fact that the towers are going up, you’re not going to stop 5g, the train has left the station, you can be proactive in the way that you respond to these things. Just like you can’t control COVID You can’t control this, they can control you can control yourself and ways to mitigate the risk, I think is what you’re

R Blank 44:04
saying. Yes. And because of that distance thing, just one final note of hope not of depression, because of that distance thing. It is what you do with the tech that is closest to you that can have the biggest possible impact. So even if you see more of these towers going up all the time and you read the news and there’s you know, all sorts of you know, you live in an apartment building you see 30 Wi Fi networks, when you turn it on, you still have a tremendous amount of control over your personal exposure because of whatever you choose to do in your own home.

Nate Haber 44:34
Love it, man. Hey, shield your body everybody. Thank you so much are pretty Thank

R Blank 44:39
you, man. I really this was a great conversation. Thank you for having me.

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R Blank, SYB Founder

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