The Power Within Us with Sunna van Kampen

The Power Within Us is a podcast series aimed at educating and informing people on how they can take control of their health, more specifically through optimising their immune function. Each week Sunna van Kampen, the founder of Tonic Health, sits down with an expert in the health and wellness space to give great and useful insight on unlocking our great potential. Because the power is within us.

In this episode, entitled “Why your phone could be making you sick”, Sunna interviews SYB CEO R Blank to cover many of the public health issues linked to EMF exposure.



Sunna van Kampen 0:20
Welcome to the power is within us the podcast that explores our natural power within to heal, stay healthy and lead extraordinary lives. I’m sort of Van Kampen, your host, founder of tonic health, the immunity brand is aiming to change your relationship with your immune system for the better. Welcome to this week’s episode of The Power within us today we have r blank joining us who is an entrepreneur, technologist and author and is internationally recognized as one of the leading experts on EMF. This is the wireless radiation from devices like cell phones and laptops that are around us all day and every day. But the health consequences are rarely talked about or thought about. And plenty of studies have shown the negative effects of living close to wireless radiation from cell towers and other things. So he’s been studying this his whole life. His father, Dr. Martin blanc was one of the world’s leading EMF scientists and has degrees from Columbia, and UCLA. It’s a really, really interesting topic that we delve into the science on. I hope you enjoy listening.

Thanks for joining us today are great to have you on the podcast. As always, with our guests, we like to start with a little bit about your journey. How did it begin? What made you get into health?

R Blank 1:53
Sure. So thank you so much for having me this is it’s a pleasure to come and talk to your audience about this topic, which, which I really believe in really helping people to understand this a lot better. So how did it start? Well, so it was about 10 years ago now. And my father was Dr. Martin Blanc. And he was one of the world’s leading EMF scientists. And he had a contract to write a book. And it was really the first time in his life that he was supposed to write something for average people to so he was a great writer, but he spent his life writing, you know, academic papers and articles. And he had to write in a way that communicated to to just normal, normal consumers. And he was having some trouble with that. So he asked me for some help at that point. At that point in my life, I was in software engineering, where I had a 20 year career and I had written a book. And I taught on the faculty at University of Southern California Viterbi School of Engineering. So I had a lot more experience dealing with, with with communication and messaging. And so he asked me for help, and I had enough time in my schedule to do it, I was interested. And so I sat down, and I co wrote the book with him, the book is called overpowered, it’s still one of the best, in my opinion, one of the best books on this subject of EMF and health effects. And it covers all the science up until that point that you know, what we know about this, and the experience of writing that book. I mean, I obviously, you know, I knew my father, so I knew what he did for a living. So I knew about EMF and I knew, you know, never never had a microwave in my house, I knew never to hold a cell phone up to my head. But other than that, I didn’t really have a deep appreciation or understanding the process of writing that book showed me a couple of really key things. One is that the science on this topic is really convincing. It’s really strong. A lot of times you don’t hear about it at all, but when you do hear about it, you’ll hear about it as a kind of a both sides ism issue. You know, some science says this other sciences that the science on this is really, really strong 1000s of studies, it goes back decades. And it’s just it’s very convincing when you when you read it, and you get exposed to that information. But at the same time, the sources of this stuff, right? Because again, you know, I grew up knowing this, so I knew not to have a microwave I knew to be careful with the cell phone. But when you actually sit down and think about it, the number of sources of EMF radiation in our lives, because it’s everything that runs on power, and anything that communicates wirelessly. So these sources are everywhere, and they form the entire basis of modern society and the modern economy. You could not get rid of EMF, this human made emf in our environment without going back to 1850 before the invention of the light bulb and that’s just impossible. Yeah.

Sunna van Kampen 4:57
So happening right we like light Yeah.

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R Blank 5:00
Oh, wait, yeah, you couldn’t do that without destroying the entire modern society, the way everything works, the way we make our money, the way we do our jobs, the way we entertain ourselves, the way we refrigerate our own food. So I felt like there had to be safer ways to use this stuff. And I felt like there had to be some better. Because this stuff, it’s serious, but it’s also complicated. You know, EMF can be a very complicated subject, and I felt like there was a need to help educate people. So that’s so helping people use technology more safely, and creating a product line that helps people use technology more safely, that’s when the idea hit me was in the process of, of helping my father to write, overpower, and release my first product the following year in 2013.

Sunna van Kampen 5:52
That is quite some journey. And, you know, really, really, it, I mean, to have the access to your dad that, you know, was in this field and researching it and understood the science is, I think, such an amazing, you know, grounding for you and then coming in helping him construct a book must have given you so so much insight that most people will never ever get in their life, right? Because science is confusing. There is so much out there. There’s so many different studies that say different things like I’ve experienced a lot in just my field with vitamins and the immune system. And different studies say different things, and they’re conflicting. And then how do you think, you know, when you say, mainstream media, when the science comes out? They’re saying, oh, was a bit of this? It’s a bit of that. We don’t know. How do you think they’re crafting that argument? If you say the science is so clear on EMF, why do you think they’re ignoring it? Why do you think it’s, yeah, it’s not getting the uptake that it deserves? Potentially,

R Blank 6:59
sir. Well, I mean, that there was a very loaded question. There’s a lot to it. You know, I’ll try to break it down a little bit. I mean, first, just for some comparison. And by the way, I do apologize, my dog has apparently just discovered something very significant in life. And that doesn’t normally happen in interviews. So I apologize for the parkings coming through. Just as a bit of comparison, you have to think about how long it took to get tobacco regulations. The science there, I mean, if you go back, you know, to the mid 20th century, you had doctors doing cigarette ads, long after the science started coming out, showing, you know, its contribution to serious lung conditions. And not just cancer, but but but emphysema and others. So in what you’re seeing with the wireless industry in particular, but also the power industry, is the same sort of playbook. In fact, there’s a whole chapter in the book about the the tobacco playbook. And so part of it is muddying the waters by funding science that is designed to show specific outcomes. Part of it is by installing industry, power players into regulatory roles. So that that’s something you know, that we’re up against. And it’s not just it for that it’s not just EMF, you see that same sort of playbook deployed in so many different areas of life and commerce. But you add to that, the fact that EMF is complicated, that it it is invisible, you can’t see it, touch it, smell it, taste it, I mean, again, look at how long it took for tobacco, and that is, like smoke coming out of your lungs. And so obviously, yeah, it’s so obvious and yet with with EMF, like I say, you can’t see it, taste it, touch it. Smell it, there’s there’s just it’s totally invisible. So it’s very easy to ignore, you have the fact that it comes from all of this stuff that we really, really love. It not just reliant on but also increasingly addicted to. And so you have the same sort of addiction mechanisms that were in play with tobacco, except in this case, it is everyone, right, because everyone is experienced all virtually everyone is experiencing tech addiction. And so you have an addictive relationship with the source of the pollutant, you have the fact that it’s beyond the addiction, you just love it, right? I mean, who doesn’t love some aspect of their tech, whether it’s social media, or video games or Netflix, and even the stuff we don’t think about with tech addiction, right? I mean, we love having our food stored without going moldy. So right refrigeration, yeah. So So you have you have pollution of the science. You have Mundo let’s say interest in regulators and you have a population that doesn’t really understand this stuff doesn’t ever see it and doesn’t even want to know about it because they Just one there, the approach would be well, what am I going to do not use a phone? Right? And so you have all of these factors in play. And I think that that is really contributing to to, let’s say, a delay in recognition of what is increasingly obvious. By by the science. Yeah,

Sunna van Kampen 10:18
no, I mean, we could go down many a rabbit hole on the kind of merchants of doubt there’s a documentary about that very topic of, you know, how the tobacco industry muddied the science for 50 years. So that actually what they knew in the 50s didn’t become mainstream legislation until the early 2000s. Right, and they started to ban smoking in public places. So yeah, I feel your pain on that one. And then, you know, there’s similar things happening in pharma industry with nutrition and other things we could go into, but I wanted to, you know, take it back a little bit to the basics in the beginning, like because I’m not an expert on EMF, I don’t know loads about it. But I’ve seen a lot of their like, the way it hits home, for me, the most I would say is when you see those days have two plants, one plant that grows next to like a Wi Fi router, and one doesn’t. And the plant that doesn’t go next, your Wi Fi router does so much better flourishes, green leaves, the one next to the Wi Fi router, really doesn’t it struggles to kind of grow. So like just explain to people, what are the mechanisms behind it? What’s causing it? What are the issues? How is it interfering with our biology? Health was what’s going on

R Blank 11:32
there? Yeah, no, that’s a great question. And so I’m trying to think about how best to approach starting that answer. So one thing that you see when you review the science is that the health effects are demonstrated in virtually every system, every biological system in which they are investigated. So you see, issues with fertility, infertility, sub fertility, you see issues with birth defects and miscarriage, you see issues with sleep disruption, you see issues with immune system function. You see, obviously, the big the big bigger coverage is on issues of tumors, especially brain tumors, but also thyroid cancer, colorectal cancer, prostate cancer. And so you see these, these results, these these very disturbing results in virtually every biological system that is investigated. And it’s not just humans, as the example you just pointed out, you might be referring to the study about watercrest seeds, because that is a common one, and with very powerful visuals, but you see it throughout the plant and animal kingdom. So you see it in terms of See, in your example, seeds not being able to germinate. You see it in tree die offs, you see it in disruption of migratory patterns, because because of the magneto ception that is used by birds and bees to navigate their way around the world, you see the same outcomes in marine life. So when you talk, why, why do you see this in so many different aspects of life and so many different biological systems. And there are a few mechanism where science is still revealing more on this. But what you know, one mechanism that you see that has been demonstrated for decades, is the impact of EMF on DNA. And DNA is shared by every living cell, not just human. And it’s every but in humans, it’s everywhere in our body. And there are studies going back to the 90s from a couple of scientists Lai and Singh and Henry, Dr. Henry Lyon, Dr. Narendra Singh. And they showed at the time they were studying cordless phones, and they showed even very brief exposure to cordless phone radiation, which is very similar to cell phone radiation led to an increase in what are called strand breaks, where the strands that formed the DNA just break and when you have the strand breaks, you can have single strand breaks or double strand breaks, right, because DNA is made up of two strands. So you can have one of the strands breaks or both, when one breaks, your cell will try to repair the damage by copying the information from the other strand. It is at that moment in which mutations can occur when because those errors that does not an error free process. So you start using that invites mutation, when both strands break that actually leaves the cell to kill itself. And DNA as I mentioned, it is it is in every cell. And so when you start to oh and by the way, one of the reasons you see this

EMF has such a big impact on male fertility in particular, is because sperm only has one strand of DNA it does not have to. And so when you damage the strand, the sperm cannot function the sperm cell cannot function. So DNA that is fundamental to the to the cell, which is fundamental to all life. And when you have that disruption, that is why you can see it impact so many different systems. Another thing that people need to be aware of is that the body itself is effectively an electromagnetic device. So the way that our brain communicates with the rest of our body, it involves sending very, very, very low power signals, EMF signals through the nervous system, when those signals encounter other forms of EMF that can obviously disrupt the signal. And that then leads to an inability to regulate the bodily functions in the way in which they’re designed to be regulated. Now, there’s plenty of other mechanisms that people are finding, you know, one that is getting a bit more attention now is something called the voltage gated calcium channel. And this is work that’s being led by Dr. Martin Paul. And what he has shown is, so the voltage gated calcium channel, that is something that’s on the cell that determines how much calcium can enter a cell, when what he has shown is that exposure to EMF radiation disrupts the voltage gated calcium channel, allowing too much calcium into cells, which leads to oxidative stress, which leads to many negative health outcomes. So you knew that in this is all very tip of the iceberg stuff. I don’t want to get too into too many details on this, but that this is all just to show how they have identified mechanisms that are common, either to every cell or too many cells in many different biological systems. Yeah, and

Sunna van Kampen 16:45
I think I guess part of the problem with it is these mechanisms of issues that take time and years of kind of EMF exposure to build up, right, if this was quick and instant, and, you know, you saw it happening, like in the plant study, you see it happening, like, Oh, my God, but because it takes so long, we kind of just forget it, ignore it and kind of think it doesn’t exist, right?

R Blank 17:16
That’s exactly right, you really hit on a key issue here, right? Because, I mean, people have this implicit bias that if something is available for sale, that it is safe. And that is just not true. And the regulations are all designed that this is a very unregulated part of commerce. But the regulations that do exist are all designed to protect you against immediate harm, right? Because enough EMF can actually burn you. And that’s exactly how a microwave oven works, right? Because microwaves are a type of EMF. And so you see, you can cook food with it, right? So if you have enough power, it can actually burn you or heat your tissue, that type of damage is can be very harmful, right? And so and it’s immediately apparent. And so all of the regulations that do exist are based around your cell phone, not burning you effectively. But that is I mean, in that it’s I want to underscore right, that is important. Thankfully, those regulations exist. We don’t want our cell phones to burn us. But they are insufficient, because they they don’t protect us against these so called non thermal effects. And these, by and large take time to manifest now not entirely, right, because, again, going back to the example of male infertility and sub fertility, the damage to the sperm happens immediately, effectively. And because sperm only lives about 24 hours before it is regenerated. And so you can see, you know, by putting us men who carry their phones in their pockets have much higher levels of infertility and sub fertility. And conversely, when they stop carrying their phones in their pockets, their sperm counts and motility can increase very, very quickly. But by and large, the type of health effects you’re absolutely correct. The type of health effects that we talk about are ones that take months years or in the case of tumors decades to form and so it can be even easier to just push it out of your mind.

Sunna van Kampen 19:30
To think honestly it wherever we look in health and the mistakes we’ve made in the past with cigarettes, like you mentioned, the problem is this level of work I can’t see it now. I don’t believe it like we face this problem as a supplement company in the UK especially because, you know, if you walk down the chocolate aisle or the Chris bar, you might be looking at the sugar or the fat content because you know, they’re inherently maybe not great for you. So you’re going to look at the sugar levels go up by the hell The one call move on, when you go down the vitamin aisle, you go great and find something good for me. And so you don’t even consider what’s in it and look at the back yet, you’ve got supplement manufacturers putting polyethylene glycol in there, which is like a derivative of petrol. And you know, they’ve got hardly any vitamin E and more in some of them have more ie numbers than vitamins and you’re like, like on a three to one ratio. And you’re like, What is this? Like? Why would you make this health product that people don’t see it, people don’t see it. And it’s like, I think you’ve probably got the hardest job in the world, because people literally don’t see. And I’d like, I have to confess, I’m old enough to remember when phones first came out, and I first got my like, first little brick phone, and my dad gave me a little EMF thing to stick on the back of the phone. So he already knew about it and had heard about it and bought a little thing to go on the back. And I used it and put it on. Okay, why did he say Dad, I was a kid, I didn’t know enough about it. But then to be completely honest with you, I kind of forgot about it and haven’t used one for the last 15 years. So, you know, like, and that’s me, I’m into my health, you know, I run a supplement company. And I’m still not seeing it, like, have you talked about in your company and what you do like the psychological consumer barrier to this, like, how do we solve that? Because I think if we could solve that psychology of helping people understand that it doesn’t matter whether it’s EMF, cigarette, nutrition, whatever, we can help fix it, but it’s really the human psychology we need to get into.

R Blank 21:44
That’s, that’s, that’s a really fantastic question. And it’s actually something that we’re talking a lot about these days. I mean, historically, when I started the company, and we started making products and selling them, we weren’t trying to change anybody’s minds, we were providing a solution to people who were aware and who wanted this solution. Increasingly, we are, we have been shifting to one to a company that does try to engage in a form of advocacy by building awareness. Now, there is obviously significant hurdles to establishing that consumer awareness. But the reason I find your question so interesting, and so well timed, is because and I was just talking about this in another interview, for my podcast, there is something changing in the world today. And I, you know, so you know, I had, you know, a 20 year career in software engineering that was out in California, which was, you know, still is, you know, the hub of the tech industry. And I grew up, you know, in the came of age in the 90s, when the web came out, and people were really connecting online, and all the tech was advancing, and all these cool ways. And Apple was making all these cool products, and everything that came out was cool, and you wanted it. And you there was nothing bad about it. Right? So that’s what I’m trying to get to. There’s just this implicit bias, that technology is great. I mean, even in boring old business, right, tech led to these massive productivity gains. So you wanted as much tech as you could, there was nothing bad about it. You know, it’s not like the evil tobacco companies are the evil oil companies, which were very easy to imagine and see as evil. Tech was good. And all these companies were cool and small. And so the reason I’m painting this picture is because I think something really is starting to change. And it’s not specific to EMF, but it is about tech, where I feel like, particularly in 2021, there is a growing awareness to be willing to view tech as potentially harmful. And one of the bigger examples of this, at least in the States is, I don’t I don’t know if you’ve heard about this Facebook whistleblower, Francis house. Yeah, who testified before Congress, and leaked a bunch of memos and documents from internally from within Facebook, where she showed they knew that this stuff was harmful to people. And so again, this has nothing to do with EMF. But it does show, I believe a significant change in the mindset where people are willing to at least consider that tech can be harmful. And that tech should be regulated either by government or just self regulated, you know, you should use it less. You should encourage your children to engage in better tech hygiene. And that might that shift in mindset, I believe is laying the groundwork for people to be more receptive to understanding and believing and considering other harms that tech is causing. So it’s not just to mental health, it’s also to physical health. It’s also to environmental health, but the massive amounts of waste that are being created, and these these horrible, horrible chemicals that are required to make these awesome batteries that we all want. And so that bad I think is and that’s why I’m really glad you asked that question, because I think something that is very currently happening right before our eyes.

Sunna van Kampen 25:24
Yeah, no, I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s a really interesting moment. And in a way, this weird thing about it all is Tech has enabled the transparency of information to a level where, you know, you have people that are unaffiliated, just great scientists, health experts, whatever. And they can build a huge audience and a platform where they can have these conversations, whereas, you know, before the advent of techie, potentially couldn’t have done that or achieved that, because you would have needed a publisher or an institution behind you. So I think, yeah, I would totally agree that people are starting to, you know, we’re all probably a little bit addicted to social and it’s not driving good, bad patterns of behavior, and it’s dangerous and teens and that for their mental health and psychology. But yeah, I yeah, I don’t know how I guess my, my, the nugget I’m trying to find, which I don’t expect you to have to because it would be a hell of a golden nugget is. Yeah. How do we help more people wake up to drive that shift and understanding and thing because I think that’s the problem I face in my industry, I’m sure you face in your industry, whether you look at other health industries, like it’s really about, yeah, helping people understand this stuff in a way that they can get it and go. I see. This doesn’t make sense. You know, what, because the data isn’t enough sometimes, right? You see the data on microwaves, and you go, Okay, so our microwave my broccoli, and I get 7% of its nutrients, or I cook it steamed and I get 97% Yeah, people still migrate their broccoli.

R Blank 27:05
Yeah, no facts are required. But they are not sufficient. Which is Yeah, and I mean, there is no magic bullet, I will say that, that that gap, particularly when it comes to EMF, that missing piece is part of what motivated me to get into this business. Because I feel like the way in which I and my company communicate is unique, and has the potential to reach segments of people, right, because activists and academics, their work is very, very important. And people like me rely on their work, because I need to, I need stuff to communicate. I’m not the one out there doing original research. But But activists and academics, the way they speak, and the messaging that they they put out that is not going to get to average Joe consumer. And so that is a process that that we work on, and we do it originally, we really just did it through the blog, then we started doing ebooks, then a mailing list than a YouTube channel than webinars now our own podcast. And it’s about bringing this type of messaging in ways that can connect with people. It’s basically a form of storytelling. And and you need to be but it is it isn’t, you just flip a switch and then everyone listens to you. It’s a it’s an ongoing, as you know, I mean, I know I’m not telling you anything new, but it’s an ongoing effort where you have to just work at it and work at it and keep adding new threads to the story and keep finding new ways to engage with new people. And as I say, I feel like the number of people when it comes to emf in particular, the number of people who whether they realize it or not, who are right now going through shifts in their mentality that will make them more receptive to to understanding these issues in the next year, two years, three years, because of what is happening with the broader recognition of the potential harm of technology.

Sunna van Kampen 29:09
Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s talk a little bit about your company then shield your body. You know, what, what kind of things do you make, like, I definitely probably need to buy some. I’ve got my phone here with nothing. I’ve got no protection, I do try and take it out of my pocket and put it away from me as much as I can. I am kind of aware of that level of detail. But you know, what would you advise to a complete newbie into EMF and what they should do and also a little bit how it actually works and the signals and

R Blank 29:46
EMF so I’ll tell I’ll tell you happily what I tell everybody. It’s in the it’s in my main ebook for download. It’s all over my YouTube. It’s in the emails that you get from me and the line uses the best EMF protection is free, because the best way to reduce your exposure is to not have that exposure in the first place. So right now, you know, there’s two key rules. One is to minimize your use of EMF emitting technology. And to which you can do that is to maximize the distance between your body and the technology when you are using it. So one minimize use. Again, I’m not telling people to give up cell phones, I’m not telling people to give up laptops or to give up Wi Fi. But, you know, increasingly, they’re all these other devices that are that are additional sources of EMF. So you have air pods, you know, the apples, Bluetooth headsets, you have Apple Watch, you have oral rings, you have Nest thermostats, you have Alexa home devices, each one of these creates is an additional source of EMF and you really don’t need all of them. So really think about, you know, do I really want that? Do I really, really want this device, or am I just getting it, because I think it’s kind of cool. And so there are lots of ways of minimizing use another. And I have lots of examples of how to implement these, these two rules on my site. But you know, another common one that I advise people is to turn off their Wi Fi at night. So the safest option is to put Ethernet into your home. But I know a lot just from dealing with consumers, a lot of them are not willing to do that. And so tell you turn off your Wi Fi at night, right? Because you’re not making any use out of your Wi Fi when you are asleep. So turning off your Wi Fi at night cuts out that whole exposure. And this is one of those tips that has really, a lot of people come back to me and say, you know, I started sleeping better that night.

Sunna van Kampen 31:46
Yeah, no. And that’s incredibly powerful. Is an Englishman living in London, though, I need to ask you a question about that. Because it’s not so easy. We have small houses, and we live in flats in cities. And if I go on my Wi Fi list that my laptop is picking up now, I’m picking up 12345678, there’s probably about 15 Different Wi Fi networks, I could connect. So I turned mine off call, which is probably the closest one to me. So they’ll help a bit. But what about the rest of them?

R Blank 32:20
Well, you can only control what you can control. Now I do have solutions for what you’re talking about. But before I do, I just wanted to say the second rule, which is maximizing distance, the the reason that matter. So the reason it’s so good that you take your phone out of your pocket and put it somewhere else, is because the power of EMF radiation diminishes exponentially with distance. And so what that means is if your phone is an inch away from you, and now you move it to two inches away from you, you’ve cut the power of that exposure by 75%. And when Conversely, when you’re carrying the phone right in your pocket, you’re getting the maximum possible dose that that device has, and it’s a big one, cell phones are very big sources. And because they have to be able to communicate over several miles in order to reach cell towers. So that’s why minimizing use of maximizing distance matters so much, and they are the best things that you can do. And to but to your point, right, you can only control what you can control. Even other than those Wi Fi sources elsewhere in your apartment building. There. They’re going to be nearby cell towers, there’s power lines outside, there’s all other types of sources of EMF. So that’s when that’s where EMF shielding comes in. So you ask are the types of products that I make? Right because us earlier you mentioned that example that little sticker you put on your phone, that is a different type of EMF protection, the type of protection that I make and we sell it sy B is EMF shielding. And EMF shielding was invented almost 200 years ago by a UK scientist named Michael Faraday, who invented what became known as the Faraday cage. And he showed that if you weave conductive metals into certain patterns, you can deflect EMF radiation away in much the same way that a window shade deflects sunlight. And so this like I say, it’s almost 200 years old. It’s universally accepted science more than that it’s actually testable. So I can say, you know, my product X deflects this much radiation because you can test that in a lab and get those those actual numbers and consumers can test at home as well using less accurate equipment. But if you’re willing to spend about $160, which I guess it changes every day, but about 120 quid, yeah, you can get a decent meter like the trifield TF two or the cornet or the acoustics calm and, and you can actually see the power of shielding for yourself so you’re not relying on faith. You’re relying on real science With testable claims and so all of my products are based on on this. So all of my products are lined with special fabrics that have the these micro metallic weavings in them. So when it comes to the the apparel and the bedding, the stuff that’s in extended contact with your skin, the the metal component we use is silver. Because in addition to being excellent at EMF shielding, it’s also hypoallergenic and antibacterial for my other products that you know, like, like phone accessories, and laptop accessories, and so forth. Those use different less expensive materials. So nickel, cobalt and copper generally.

And so that this is how my products work. Now, for this specific case that you mentioned, right, so you’re at home, and you you have all of these Wi Fi sources near you, what can you do about it, there are some people who will go to, to the expense and the effort to shield their their entire flat or their entire home. That is very difficult, it is very expensive. And it requires trade offs. Because once you shield your home, you have to be very careful with the EMF emitting technology that you use in your home. Otherwise, it’ll all bounce around. Yeah. So that’s why we created a bed canopy. So it’s the s YB bed canopy. And obviously, it doesn’t shield your whole home, but it shields your entire bed, it forms a cube, right, so it’s a full 360 by 360 shield. And that’s protects you all night long. So that’s a big chunk of your day, it’s also a very important chunk of your day, because that is when your body is supposed to be resting, recuperating, rejuvenating, preparing for the next day. So that that is the product that we make to help protect you from sources like that. But beyond that we have apparel, right, so which is more much more portable. So we have for instance, I don’t know, if you use the term Necator. It’s like a neck tube. So you can wear it, you can wear it as a hat, you can wear it as a scarf, you can wear it in all these different ways. So we have that. And that’s great for protecting your head brain. Thyroid, we have bandanas, we have underwear for men, there’s so there’s a whole series of apparel products that we make and sell that are designed to protect your body from sources and outside of your control in your environment. And then we have accessories, like I mentioned, our best selling product is our phone pouch. And that makes it safer to carry your phone. So you put the phone in the pouch, and then put your pouch on your belt or in your pocket. And that will deflect radiation away from your body. But still allow your phone to work because the front of the pouch isn’t shielded, the back is so the part between your phone and your body is shielded. But the front isn’t. So you can still you know get calls or text messages and so forth. So those are the those are sent we have we have 20 products. Now, that was a kind of a quick overview of the types of products that

Sunna van Kampen 38:00
we will ask is really cool, really powerful as well, because your message isn’t, stop using this stuff, get rid of it, which like you say would never happen. It’s far too intertwined in our life. But you’re saying hey, look, just switch your boxes, shorts help for these if you’re looking to get pregnant, and you want to protect this burden. So just wear these in your gut. And it’s as simple and easy change people can make and the pouch is super clever, because it doesn’t render the phone kind of useless. You can still use it, you can still stick it in your pocket, but it’s just shielding the radiation away from your body. But I actually really liked the sound of that sleep pouch because sleep is so the bed canopy, the bed cover canopy sorry, yeah. Sleep is so fundamental right? Sleep is fundamental to your immune health. We always say to people like that if you have one bad night of sleep under six hours, your natural killer cell function drops by 70% in one night, just gone like that. And then you’re gonna get sick, or you can’t fight an infection that you get or whatever. And it’s so crucial to your health. And I’m quite lucky in my house where we are, it’s quite a long and thin house. So the route is down one end, and to the point where we don’t even, you know, pick up the signal on our phone of the router in the bedroom, which is nice. It’s great because we try and make the bedroom a little bit of a nest. But yeah, I mean, yeah, we’re living in this. We’re creating this environment and we had Dr. Jenny Goodman join our podcast, she and her books entitled staying alive in toxic times. And what she talks about is how it’s not like just this one thing, right? It’s not like our EMFs is crazy killer and it’s gonna kill you all tomorrow. It’s not that it’s the fact that you know, since the Industrial Age, we’ve synthesized over 80,000 different chemicals and it’s created this toxic chemical cocktail. That is now enough food or water. And it’s just common everywhere to the point where we have to call fruit and veg that isn’t grown without it. We call it something special like organic now, even though that was just how food was grown, right, you know what I mean? Like, you know, we, and it got to a point. And I don’t know when that point is, but it feels like it’s getting to a breaking point, with the EMF with the chemical exposures with the thing where rates of disease and cancer and issues are just go up and up and up every year. And it’s it’s not one thing. It’s this combination of everything is causing us to all get Yeah. unhealth No.

R Blank 40:42
Yeah, no, I totally agree. We live in a world that is increasingly toxic. I certainly I’d never go around saying EMF is the most important issue. You know, whether whether you’re talking about, you know, microplastics, in our oceans, antibiotics in our poultry, pesticides in our produce lead in our drinking water, all there’s air pollution, there’s so much toxicity in modern life. And I don’t believe that EMF is necessary. I mean, for some people, it is the worst problem. But I don’t believe that EMF is alone among severe, important toxins. I do believe that it is one, right because no one goes around saying I want more antibiotics in my chicken, no one goes around saying I want more microplastic in my salmon, no one goes around. Right? That they want more of these other toxins. But with EMF, a lot of people go around saying, I want Apple’s new glasses, a lot of people go around saying I can’t wait to get an Apple Watch. I love my air pods, I want a new pair. And so there’s there’s a shift in mindset that I am working, you know that my work involves just educating people so that they become aware that, you know, maybe just stop asking for more of this. And you are in control of it, right? Because there is nothing that I can do to get rid of microplastics. I mean, from from the food supply, I mean, I could, you know, make some changes and cut down on plastic use. And on the margins, if enough people do it, that’ll make a difference. But what I’m saying is, there’s nothing I can do to change the amount of microplastic that is in the food that I buy from the supermarket. There is however, a tremendous amount that I can do to influence my personal EMF exposure, because so much of it comes from the technology that is just that I use that is in my house. And that is true for everyone. So even if you live in a situation like yours, where you turn on the Wi Fi, and you see 15 networks, and you look out the window, and you see five cell towers, and all that, it is still the technology that is closest to you and most in your control, that is likely the biggest source of your personal exposure. And you do have control over that. And so that is why I believe it is so important to advocate and educate people on this issue. Because there’s a lot that people can do in terms of their personal exposure.

Sunna van Kampen 43:18
Yeah, and you know what, like you say it has been, you’ve got one of the toughest jobs because people want this tech and, you know, I have to confess when it pots came out, like I got some straight away, I was like, This is so cool, get rid of the wires in my ears. I can do conference calls all day and walk around my room without being like attached to something. It’s great. And then yeah, I read something about it. And I saw an article on, you know, the amount of EMF going from the two headphones, because they they essentially obviously connect to the phone. But they actually the way the audio works is one of the set I had anyway, one of the earbuds connected to the phone and the other earbud connected to the other ear. But Oh, so you’ve got them going directly through your brain. And I was just like, a little bit freaked out by that. And I just was like, No, I’m back to wireless. Sorry, wired headphones. And yeah, I’ve been using them ever since.

R Blank 44:19
Yeah, great move. Yeah. In general, right. I don’t I don’t tell people not to use technology. I advise safer uses of the technology. But when it comes to wearables, and I include air pods in those people don’t normally think of headphones as wearables, but they’re effectively wearables because you are wearing them. When with wearables, there is no separation, there is no distance over which to weaken the signal. And they’re designed to be used for extended periods of time. So you’re getting long doses of this stuff. Even if it’s less powerful than a cell phone, you’re getting those doses for very long time. Plus, it’s in addition to what you’re already getting from your cell phone. And when it comes to air pods in particular, it’s, it’s I mean, I don’t have to tell you, it is very close to your brain. And you know, you want to protect your brain. And so I was saying, I don’t normally advise people not to use technology. But when it comes to wearables, I really do. I say, don’t use air pods, don’t get an Apple Watch. Don’t use these pieces of wireless technology that are exposing you to these constant extended doses, because it’s just not safe. Plus, there is no way to use them more safely.

Sunna van Kampen 45:35
But so then, cuz a lot of our listeners are into their health. I went through a period of wearing a whoop band, you mentioned the aura ring. Like these things are obviously why wireless wearables. People do them and wear them for their health, so they understand their body more. What, what’s the option there is? Is the level of dose on them of the EMF, is it lower, because it’s really just only communicating infrequently a bit of data that isn’t like a cell phone or audio like this degrees to the level of danger by device?

R Blank 46:15
Yeah, there are and I don’t have all those. I don’t have all that data at my fingertips. But to answer your question there are. So for instance, just with Bluetooth alone, there’s three classes of Bluetooth transmitter, class one, class two, class three. And the strongest class is 100 times more powerful than the weakest class AirPods, or the strongest class. And so even within Bluetooth, right, just there’s different, the different class of the technology will determine, you know, very significant differences in doses. As you pointed out, the frequency of communicate not frequency as an EMF frequency. Frequency is and how frequently it communicates, is also another factor. And you want it to communicate as infrequently as possible, there are no a lot of these companies don’t actually distribute that information, which is unfortunate, because they don’t have to. And when you contact customer support, they don’t even really know what you’re talking about. And so it’s hard to get that data. And there’s so many different manufacturers out there, it’s just very, very hard to balance it all out. Now, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Because I talk I speak with a lot of people in increasingly in the health and wellness space, who are interested in EMF and so a lot of them use technologies, like the ones that you mentioned. And, you know, there’s, there’s no simple single answer, I will say, you know, be aware that each one of these things that you’re doing is increasing your EMF exposure and will increase your health risk. But at the same time, if it is helping you accomplish something to be healthier, right, then it’s a it’s a, how do you balance that, and that’s a very personal decision that people have to make. And there’s no you know, don’t listen to me tell you use it or don’t use it, you have to make that decision for yourself based off of and when it comes to health tech in particular, that is a that is a much more, because it’s not like air pods, because air pods are just for convenience, they don’t improve your health in any way. But when it comes to, you know, body glucose monitors is a big one these days, you know, when it comes to that, maybe it is making maybe the way you are using that is making you a lot healthier. And so it is worth it to you. And there is definitely a personal decision making process. And I just want people to at least go into that process. Right? Because it’s a cost benefit analysis, I want people going in informed as to the actual costs, not just the benefits.

Sunna van Kampen 48:47
Yeah, no. And that’s a really good way to look at it right? Because like you say, you could improve your health radically with one of those health wearables in understanding your body more over six months. But then once you’ve got the insight you need, then you can kind of stop and that’s I used it exactly for that purpose for six months. I really wanted to understand why sleep more what affected it what didn’t. After doing it for six months, I then knew and I could just stop wearing it because it was a bit tough and whatever else I got rid of it. But yeah, I guess I knew I didn’t really actually consider the the negative EMF to be honest. But yeah, you know, you’re sleeping in bed at night like this, and it’s on your wrist and it’s by your face and you have it through the night so you can monitor your sleep. And yeah, it can’t be can’t be ideal.

R Blank 49:35
I will say I don’t remember the specific model number. But I do know, just from talking to people that there is a version of the Fitbit that you can configure so that it’s it doesn’t emit wireless, so it still tracks you. Then you take it off and you connect it to a device and then it’ll communicate only when you want it to. So for again, there’s so many different manufacturers, so many different ways. wearable health tech these days. So it’s hard to track all of them. But when you are making these decisions for yourself, look for products, ideally that can function the way I just described, the Fitbit does where it’s not constantly communicating. And you can control when it does.

Sunna van Kampen 50:16
That makes a lot of sense. And yeah, one of the, I guess one of the things I always, always always do is airplane mode on your that’s huge. I need it with me, but I don’t need to use it. You know what I mean? You just stick it on airplane mode, cut the signals out. And then yeah, you can stop that EMF that way as well. They’re like little hacks, tips, little things, right? That can just make a difference without getting overwhelming, like you say, because I think one of the things we always try and do on this podcast, because there is so much you can talk about health and even just in a subject like EMF it could can get very scary and overwhelming very quickly. We try and kind of say, Okay, let’s boil it down. You know, we talked about a lot of elements today. You know, if there was one thing you could do to maximize your health or limit your EMF exposure, what would your recommendation

R Blank 51:15
be? Sure, and we’ve already talked about it, and it is not carrying your phone in your pocket. Or like you just said, putting it into airplane mode if you do. Again, you know, even with all of the the proliferation of all of these EMF emitting devices in our lives and our neighborhoods in our cities, it is often the tech that is closest to us that not only that we have the most control over but that are our biggest sources of exposure. So with cell phones, in particular, I think it’s hard for people to comprehend because they’re they’re so cool. And everyone has them in their everywhere. How powerful a source this is, compared to something even like a Bluetooth headset, or even the Wi Fi in your house cell phones are really powerful. They’re sources of very high exposures. And when it’s in your pocket, you’re getting the maximal dose from that device with no distance or separation, generally for hours at a time. And so I believe that in many, for many people, their cell phone in their pocket is their largest single source of exposure in their entire lives. So not carrying your phone in your pocket or putting it in airplane mode if you do, and I have a free guide, on my website, shield your that has because we actually have a whole bunch of these things, we call them the healthier living tips. And that is the number one, one, and the guide has the top five things that you can do to cut your EMF exposure. And it I mean, if you just want to read for those tips, then go for it. But it also goes to the it also explains why those five why I believe those five are the most important. And then because once you start making the I mean not carrying your phone in your pocket, that’s great. If you can do that, if you were doing that, carrying your phone in your pocket, and you could stop doing that, that’s great. And if that’s all you want to do great, you’ve made a big difference. But once you start thinking about your relationship with technology, there are all sorts of different ways that you can reduce your EMF exposure in your life without negatively impacting your enjoyment of and benefit from modern technology. And that’s that is I think that’s just really key for people to learn,

Sunna van Kampen 53:33
ya know, very important because we should use it to our advantage, but not let it dictate our lives and not let not let it actually compromise our health, right. And so that means we have to take some steps to protect ourselves from it. And you know, just live in a slightly different way, which, you know, it’s a habit, you have to build, you know, taking your phone out your pocket, but it’s actually a very easy one that everyone could do without too much cost or time drain, which is why I think that’s such a great tip. It’s a really nice run that everyone can just hopefully take away and do now. We’re kind of coming to the end of the podcast, but I do have to quickly touch on EMF and your immune system. So I haven’t come across much studies in this space. But I noticed you had a bit in your in your bio about it. What are you learning about EMF and how it interferes with your immune system?

R Blank 54:31
That’s a great question. And maybe you can put a link in the show notes because we do have a post. We have several posts about that on the blog, but there’s one in particular that has a couple of dozen scientific studies linked out from it directly. So So there is quite a bit of science on on emf in the immune system. And it’s painting a pretty complicated picture. Right so on the one hand you have certain science that is showing that it exposure to EMF can lead to immunosuppression, where your immune system is effectively weakened, which makes you more vulnerable to disease. It also makes you more susceptible to what are better thought of as allergic reactions. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the term EHS or electro hypersensitivity, that is a condition, sometimes called Wi Fi allergies, where people report a wide range of these negative health outcomes, basically allergic reactions to exposures of EMF that other people have no reaction to. And by some estimates, up to 35% of people have this. But three, about 3% of people report having this but it is estimated that many more people have this without realizing that they have this and it can lead to symptoms ranging from headaches, dizziness, fatigue and nausea, skin irritation and acne, brain fog and cognitive problems. And in severe cases, it can lead to extreme pain and certain people have to completely uproot their their lives and move to lower EMF places, or invest 10s of 1000s and EMF proofing their their living situation, they can’t go to work because workplaces have these levels. And so that is a that is a serious and I believe a growing condition because the more emf in the environment, the more people are going to start reporting these outcomes. But so that was immunosuppression without dragging on the answer too long just to give you a fuller picture. Yeah, there is there’s also a significant amount of science showing that EMF exposure can lead to autoimmune conditions, where so with the immunosuppression, your immune system is weaker, and you’re more susceptible with autoimmune conditions, your immune system effectively attacks your own body. And and so there’s a there’s a pretty strong connection between EMF exposure, and and these autoimmune conditions like lupus, multiple sclerosis and celiac disease. And finally, I would just point out, there’s growing science that is, so so far, we just talked about the immune system, from the perspective of the immune system, there’s growing science, showing that EMF can empower disease, so that it can make diseases more powerful. And one of the areas where this is studied is Lyme disease. And so there’s growing research showing that EMF exposure can can empower, strengthen, effectively Lyme disease, there’s also very strong research showing that EMF exposure can supercharge the growth of mold, which is another contributor to these immune conditions, including Lyme disease. So there’s, yeah, there’s a lot. Yeah, and I didn’t want to go on too long. Because I know it’s the end of the interview. But just answer your question, because I know this is of interest to you and to your audience, there is very strong evidence showing a wide range of impacts on our immune system. And I’ll get later I’ll get you that link, if you if you want to look at it, because that post actually has tables of scientific studies that people can link out to it’s not just it’s not just an article.

Sunna van Kampen 58:19
Amazing. Yeah, no, listen, we’ll definitely definitely publish that in the show notes. And in our newsletter and our blog, make sure people can see the science and see some of the, you know, the plant studies as well, which I think are almost one of the most visual best ways to communicate your stuff. But yeah, we need to get this message out further and wide. And I think what popped into my mind, or there’s a bit of a left field tangent again, but part of the problem is the system we have is that. So EMF is like you say causing these issues in the body, but it gets expressed as a condition, right? Or immune disease or some other infection or suppressed immune health or an allergy. So oh, hey, now you’ve got an allergy, but it’s not, oh, well, this Wi Fi caused this. So this is what happened. Like it’s not so clear cut it almost like can be my EMF exposure causes me x and it causes someone else why? And then it’s like, how do you connect the dots? Right? Because there would be expressed a certain Kunzite conditions, which then it’s hard to relate that back, which is I think, why you’re in a really tough space in terms of getting this message out, but because, ya know, you but you can see the thing that’s happening, right, it’s, you know, like, we’re now doing this whole vaccine program with everyone and without getting into pros and cons of vaccines, you know, there are side effects, and some people will have had them but it’s like, oh, no, no, you’ve just got myocarditis as an example of one thing that we don’t understand the mechanism of what really the vaccine did and how that came as a result of the vaccine or if it was Just a coincidence, or whatever it may be, right? There’s the way we treat disease, or the way the human body works even is that it can express the issue in so many different ways, which I think is part

R Blank 1:00:11
of the issue. Yeah, no, totally.

Sunna van Kampen 1:00:15
Because it makes it hard to pin it down and say x caused y.

R Blank 1:00:19
Yeah. Yeah. Which is why the research on mechanisms is so important. And I’m glad that you asked that earlier on. And, but that’s, that’s part of the, when I say the science these days is very strong. I’m talking, including, you know, the science on specific mechanisms that are replicable in laboratory experiments, not just not just epidemiological work, where it says, you know, people who use cell phones get more brain tumors that you can actually go into a lab. And there’s just a huge amount of science based in the lab that pinpoints these men, we have a much better understanding now on the mechanisms of EMF exposure than we did even when we wrote overpowered, but certainly more than 2030 years ago.

Sunna van Kampen 1:01:04
Yeah, amazing. Well, listen, keep doing what you’re doing, keep doing the work and spreading, you know, the science and the education. And, you know, hopefully, we can all take simple steps to try and minimize EMF exposure and not get into a bad place with it. So just wanted to thank you for your time today. It was I learned a lot and I found it incredibly interesting and informative. And I need to get on your website and go get some of your product. But tell us where our listeners can find you and your company. And

R Blank 1:01:35
sure, yeah, thank you. Yeah, so And by the way, it’s been a real pleasure. I really, I really enjoyed this chat, I also really appreciate being able to reach your audience with this message. In terms of learning more people can learn more on my website, that shield your that’s all one word shield your even though it’s, we, we also ship for it to the UK. I mean, we shipped from within the UK, so you don’t have to order from us from the United States. We’re also shield your body on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, all the major social platforms. And finally, I would just also encourage people to subscribe to my podcast, the healthier tech podcast, which is all about a wide variety of issues related to establishing and maintaining a healthier relationship with modern technology.

Sunna van Kampen 1:02:27
Olson, that’s absolutely epic. I need to go check some of that out and do a bit of shopping as well. Because yeah, I think there’s definitely more I can do and especially now my wife’s actually pregnant with your first child in February. I’m also thinking congratulations, thank you. But I’m also thinking about like, Oh my God, but still maybe to protect I need to keep them super healthy. Okay, what do I do? You know?

R Blank 1:02:53
Well, we have the baby blanket, and the baby blanket.

Sunna van Kampen 1:02:56
Amazing. Yeah, it’s something I’m going to have to get because, I mean, now with wearable tech, I’m going to carry on a bit but they, you know, they put like socks on babies that like monitor their temperature permanently and send you like signals back to your phone so you can check stuff and you can get these tech based cots that like detect how the baby’s feeling and then like rocket side to side automatically to help sue them and stuff. I was like, I went and got a bassinet, which is made out of natural.

R Blank 1:03:29
Very good yeah, no, no with this without without stoking a whole nother branch of the conversation I would just throw in. And I just want to be clear, I, I don’t want people to react because a lot of times when they first people first learn about EMF, you know, they can get into a bit of a panic, like, Oh, this is so dangerous, and it’s everywhere. What can you know, don’t don’t do that. And I know especially you know, new parents can can be susceptible to that. So don’t react with panic, don’t overreact. But the thing I wanted to say is, the younger you are, the more vulnerable you are to damage from EMF like as with many toxins, for there’s a whole variety of reasons why but so teenagers are more vulnerable to damage than adults, children more than teenagers and babies, most of all. So it is very important that you go through that. And I’m really glad to hear that you just got to let the basically the IKEA bassinet instead of instead of the Robocop acid.

Sunna van Kampen 1:04:31
Yeah, exactly. But no, that’s really useful. Because the last point I promise. The this I guess, this is the bit that I am driven a lot by logic. I’m not a scientist by trade. And but I read a hell of a lot about it. But the bit you know, the way you know the, the corporation’s will say yeah, but don’t worry about that plant study because it’s only a plan. And, you know, that’s just a plant, they’re weak, they’re small, they’re not as adaptable and capable as humans. So, at the level of, you know, EMF that a human gets, we’re fine. We’re okay, we can deal with it. But that’s where I always find the disconnect with logic, which is, yes, yes, we can, we can probably cope with more of it than the plant can for sure. Humans have survived on this planet for millions of years purely because of our adaptability, mainly, but the big bug is, if it’s unhealthy on a micro level, and we keep adding more and more devices and more things, and more things, and then expose ourselves to it for 50 years, at some point that extrapolates and becomes too much, right, the thing in its very infancy is still bad and disrupts biology and human life or life on Earth in some way. It’s just we need to, yeah, understand what that level is, and and kind of control it rather than just, oh, we’re not planters fine. You know, we take this very blase approach.

R Blank 1:06:09
Now, totally agree. Yeah. I mean, that’s one of the reasons, you know, the book I wrote with my father, it’s called overpowered. It’s because these exposures are overpowered. And because of regulations, you know, they’re there, they not only have more power than than is healthy, they have more power than they need, it would be possible to design safer cell phones, there’s just no, they’re not compelled to do so. And, you know, so in what you were talking about, right, let’s just say that the level of EMF in our environment today is safe. I mean, it’s certainly not, but let’s just say that it is, we keep adding more and more and more. So even if the level today was safe, which is clearly not, you know, the level next year is going to be greater. And the year after that, it’s going to be greater, and we just keep pouring more and more and more of this stuff into our environments. And so, ya know, I think you hit on a really significant logical disconnect in that in whoever that skeptics argument.

Sunna van Kampen 1:07:09
Yeah, no, no, exactly. Well, listen, our it’s been awesome. I’ve loved talking with you. I think we could talk for another couple of hours, quite easily. But I like to keep them short. So they’re digestible and easy for people to just dip in and out subject. So thank you. Thank you so much, again, for coming. We’ll send all your show notes and links to your website and blogs afterwards so people can find out more. So yeah, thank you for your time today. It was awesome.

R Blank 1:07:34
Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Sunna van Kampen 1:07:44
Thank you for joining us on today’s episode of the podcast, brought to you by tonic health, helping you harness the power of your immune system naturally. Follow us at Tonic health or subscribe to this podcast to learn more about the magical power within us the immune system

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5 ways to reduce your EMF exposure

Cut Your Exposure to Harmful EMF – Right Now

Grab your copy of my free guide with 5 ways to start.

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About the Author

Have a Question?
R Blank, SYB Founder

I take pride in designing great, effective products, based on real, measurable science – AND taking the time to ensure that each and every one of you has the information you need to understand EMF and make informed decisions.

So if you have a question, just email me and ask.

R Blank

R Blank

Want to learn how you can test EMF at home?​

Good. Grab your copy of my free guide with everything you need to know about home EMF testing.​

Want to Slash Your Exposure to Harmful EMF?

Good. Download my FREE GUIDE with the 5 top free ways to start right now.

Cut Your Exposure to Harmful EMF – Right Now

Grab your copy of my free guide with 5 ways to start.