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The Raine Dunn Podcast with Raine Dunn

The Raine Dunn Podcast with Raine Dunn

Raine Dunn is on a mission to help people find expansion in their lives through holistic wellbeing: physical, mental and spiritual. On her Raine Dunn Podcast she interviews expert guests to share some of the tools, approaches and thought processes that have helped me delve deeper into what it means to be a spiritual being living a physical existence.

The Raine Dunn Podcast with Raine Dunn

On this episode, Raine takes a subject which is very much the elephant in the room – one which we tend to ignore or sweep under the rug because in many ways it feels insurmountable – and give you some practical and realistically doable ways in which to reduce your and your family’s exposure to EMF radiation. As Raine says “this episode is my longest one yet at 2 hours, and I know that these types of subjects can sometimes be a bit heavy listening or boring compared to sexier subjects, but I would highly recommend listening all the way through – this problem is here to stay and will only grow exponentially every year and so we really need to become more aware and make better choices as our world becomes increasingly focused on tech.”

Listen

Transcript

R Blank 0:02
Humanity was not exposed to these forms of EMF until about the middle middle of the 19th century, right with the invention of the light bulb we see impacts in essentially every biological system that is measured, you’re looking for an association between, for instance, cell phones and tumors, you find plenty. If you’re looking for links between cell phones and infertility and sub fertility, you find plenty. If you are looking for endocrine system disruption, you find that if you’re looking for disruption of bird migratory patterns, you find that if you’re looking for risks of miscarriage, you find that I was just trying to underscore that all of these effects that we started talking about, I’m sure we’ll continue talking about the cancers, the infertility, the bird migratory pattern, none of those are considered in regulation, right? Those are all occurring at levels far lower than what triggered the trigger the thermal effect.

Raine Dunn 0:58
It’s not just about us making our decisions about how we operate with our devices. But I think it’s a larger cultural issue of the psychology behind how we’re using tech. And that’s a conversation that needs to be had publicly. It’s not just up to each individual to say, Okay, I’m going to use my phone. Let’s, I’m going to put it on airplane mode. I think it’s a much larger cultural conversation. Well, I

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R Blank 1:19
agree. But I also like focusing on what people can do individually rather than trying to change the whole world.

Raine Dunn 1:25
So with this episode, I do want to empower people with how they can simply and easily in their day to day lifestyle to limit their exposure. R blank is an entrepreneur, technologist and author following a 20 year career in software development for blue chip firms including Apple, NBC, Disney, Microsoft, the NFL, IKEA and Mattel. He started shield your body, a company whose mission it is to make technology safer to use and enjoy are also hosts the healthier tech podcast, covering issues to help people have a healthier, more balanced relationship with technology. And along with his father, Dr. Martin Blanc, he co authored overpowered, widely regarded as one of the best books written on the science of the health effects of EMF radiation. My intent with this episode is to take a subject which is very much the elephant in the room, one which we tend to ignore or sweep under the rug, because in many ways, it feels insurmountable, and give you some practical and realistically doable ways in which to reduce your annual family’s exposure to EMF radiation. Today, this episode is my longest one yet at two hours. And I know that these types of subjects can sometimes be a bit heavy listening or boring compared to sexier subjects. But I would highly recommend listening all the way through this problem is here to stay, and will only grow exponentially every year. And so we really need to become more aware and make better choices as I will becomes increasingly focused on tech. Normally, when I do a podcast, I don’t really have a long list of questions, I like to sort of just let the conversation flow. But for you, I have a very long because I think this is such an interesting subject. And there’s so much that I think most of us don’t really know about it. We’re sort of aware of the subjects of EMFs. But we don’t really know all the details.

R Blank 3:33
Yeah, no happy to happy to share what I have.

Raine Dunn 3:36
Thank you. Um, so first of all, I’d love for you to share with us just your background, how you came to be doing, what you’re doing at the moment and what exactly it is that you do.

R Blank 3:46
Sure. So I started my career in software engineering, and I had a software engineering firm in Los Angeles, and it was about 10 years ago. And my father, who was Dr. Martin plank, he was one of the world’s leading researchers on issues of EMF and health. And he had a contract to write a book. And this book, which became overpowered, became the book called overpowered, was intended for general audiences. And so in order to help communicate these issues to general audiences, he asked for my help. And so I jumped in and we we co wrote the book. And obviously, I, you know, I’d known about EMF as an issue my whole life because of the work he did, but I didn’t. It wasn’t really until that experience of writing the book with him, that I really got a deeper understanding of the issues and realize that I felt there. There had to be safer ways for people to engage with technology and that is where the idea for what s YB became what became sy B. So that was in 2012. We wrote the book. And then in 2013, I launched a My first product and so that’s been about nine years. And since then, I’ve added more products. And now we have a couple dozen products. And we engage in a lot of educational activities, because there’s a big need for education. So we, we have lots of articles, I read a lot of ebooks, we host webinars, we have a healthier tech podcast. So there’s a lot of education work that we do. And that is kind of the short version of the story.

Raine Dunn 5:28
Awesome. So it sounds like you’re just really passionate about educating people on this subject.

R Blank 5:34
Yeah, well, I mean, so I, I have a background. So I used to teach on the faculty of University of Southern California, used to run deck technology groups, I would teach at conferences, I’ve written books. So teaching has always been something that that I enjoyed and felt I was good at. So it kind of fits nicely with a subject like this, which is so complicated, or at least the way it’s delivered a lot of the time. It’s quite complicated. So yes.

Raine Dunn 6:06
So I’m gonna start off super basic. What exactly is EMF?

R Blank 6:11
That’s a great way to start. So I always I think it’s such an important place to start these conversations. So I don’t like it when hosts miss that question. So EMF, it stands for electromagnetic field. And it’s a form of energy that is comprised of both electricity and magnetism forces. And it is, so there’s many different kinds of EMF and, and so they exist on what we call an electromagnetic spectrum. And right at the middle of that spectrum is visible light. So visible light, like we get from the sun is a form of EMF. And really, with a few minor exceptions, that was really the only form of EMF that humanity, and all life on Earth was exposed to, until until we started inventing certain technologies beginning around 1850. But before I get to that, so I said, there’s a whole bunch of different types of EMF, right, so the middle is visible light. So then there’s forms of EMF with more energy than visible light. And those are things that we call X rays, and gamma rays, and UV rays. And those are really, really harmful, even in very small doses. And that’s universally accepted, right. So that’s why, you know, when you get you go to the dentist, and they want to give you an x ray, they they cover you in a lead jacket and leave the room while it’s happening, right, because we know that stuff is really harmful. It’s called those these are the forms of EMF called ionizing and they’re called ionizing because they have so much energy, they can knock electrons loose from your cells. And that’s where there’s immediate significant damage that’s caused by exposure to those. So then there’s a whole bunch of forms of EMF with less energy than visible light. And we call those non ionizing because they don’t have enough energy to knock electrons loose from your cells. And it was long assumed, or believed that these non ionizing forms of EMF were benign, that they were harmless at levels where they don’t cause heating, right? So. So where do these come from? Well, these come from anything that runs on power, and anything that communicates wirelessly. So these are the non ionizing forms of EMF come from power lines, they come from appliances, obviously, they come from cell phones and Wi Fi, anything that runs on power, and anything that communicates wirelessly. And the so when when you know someone like you, has me on a show and said, Let’s talk about EMF, that’s the kind of EMF that is the focus of the discussion. And I just want to underscore, I said it briefly, but I just want to underscore, we, humanity was not exposed to these forms of EMF until about the middle middle of the 19th century, right with the invention of the light bulb. So first, you had the light bulb, then you had the power grid, then you started getting all these other appliances that could run on the power grid, then you got radio, and then you got television and radar, and then cell phones and Wi Fi and on and on and on. And so but it’s only been about 180 years that these forces have even existed.

Raine Dunn 9:27
Yeah. And it’s increasing exponentially to the point where we’re being bombarded with it every day. Yeah, and I think people some people tend to be quite dismissive of it. But I think what you mentioned is really important point is that we did not evolve with this level of EMF radiation around us the whole time.

R Blank 9:45
Correct. Yeah. All life all life on Earth. So it’s not and as I imagine, we’ll get into some of the science this in a little bit, but the science is showing that it’s not just it’s not just humans that are impacted, right. It’s all forms of life. Yeah,

Raine Dunn 9:59
yeah. So how exactly does EMF affect our bodies?

R Blank 10:05
So the science, and this is part of what the experience of writing overpowered with my father really hit home for me, right? Because the science now is is pretty significant. We’re talking about 1000s of high quality studies showing bio effects. And the way I like to talk about it is the picture that science is painting is that we see impacts in essentially every biological system that is measured, right? So if you’re looking for tumors, if looking for an association between, for instance, cell phones and tumors, you find plenty. If you’re looking for links between cell phones and infertility and subfertility, you find plenty. If you are looking for endocrine system disruption, you find that if you’re looking for disruption of bird migratory patterns, you find that if you’re looking for risks of miscarriage, you find that Alright, so. And I know that can sound a little well, it can sound a little terrifying, but can also sound a little weird, like how can EMF impact, essentially everything. And there are a few reasons why that makes sense. And, you know, that could be its own hour long discussion, but I’ll pick a few. One is, and this is this is science that I like to talk about when I appear on shows, goes back to the 1990s, a couple of doctors Henry Ely in a render sing in Seattle area. And they studied the impact of cordless phone radiation, which for our purposes of our discussion is almost identical to cellphone radiation. But this was the 90, so there were studying cordless phones. And they were looking for the impact on DNA. And DNA is made up of two strands, right. So that’s the form that double helix. And what they found in their research was that exposure to cordless phone radiation, even for brief periods, led to increases in DNA strand breaks. So a strand break is when the strands that make up DNA breaks. And if you have a double strand break, then the cell will will engage in a process called apoptosis, it will kill itself. But if you have a single strand break, the DNA will try to repair itself by using the information in the other strand. And that is a process by which mutations occur. So the more straight single strand breaks, you have the higher rate of DNA mutation that you’re going to experience. And I mentioned that and that, by the way, is obviously a known mechanism for many types of diseases, and especially cancers. And I mentioned that study or set of studies, in particular, because DNA is in every cell of every living thing. And so you’re seeing that EMF has the ability to cause significant harm to DNA, which means it can cause significant harm to every cell in every living thing. And so that is just one example. But if you if you step back, and you look at it, and when I say this, I know it’s going to come across as sounding spiritual, but it’s actually literal, which is we are electromagnetic beings, our bodies run on electromagnetic energy. Now we’re talking about Super. Oh, yeah. I’m sorry, I’m rambling here. But no. We, when I talk about us being electromagnetic entities, we’re talking about really low low power levels, right. And so that is, for instance, how your brain controls every part of your body, it is how your body, every part of your body communicates back to the brain. And these are very delicate electromagnetic signals. And when we are exposing ourselves to such powerful electromagnetic signals, there is a lot of opportunity for physiological disruption.

Raine Dunn 14:11
Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me that we’ve got those like you called a delicate electromagnetic functions within our own body. And am I correct in saying that our body has its own electromagnetic field? Yes. And then when you’ve got these more potent forms of EMF coming in, it disrupts those functions. And the planet itself has its own electromagnetic field, which is why it would disrupt bird migratory patterns. And yes, am I right in saying it also affects bees, which of course is a huge concern because bees pollinate all of our food.

R Blank 14:46
Yeah, any creature that uses Magneto ception for navigation, is impacted by EMFs. And there’s plenty of studies. Some larger scale, some smaller scale, but there’s one where if you put us cell phone in front of a beehive. I believe the number was 79% of the hive did not return in the colony collapsed. And that was just by placing a cell phone in front of the hive.

Raine Dunn 15:10
That’s really concerning.

R Blank 15:11
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s it. None of the regulator’s I assume we’ll get into this also later in the conversation. I apologize for jumping all over the place. But none of the regulations that exist around EMF and they’re they’re not there aren’t enough of them, right. They’re their whole classes of exposures that aren’t even regulated at all. But there are certain regulations of different products in different countries. None of the regulations that exist about EMF exposure to general consumers and to nature. None of them consider any of these impacts, right. They’re all based around something that we call the thermal effect, which I hinted to earlier, when I was talking about the electromagnetic spectrum, where I said it was long believed that non ionizing forms of EMF were benign, at levels too low to heat you, right, because there are certain levels of non ionizing EMF that can cook in effect. And that’s exactly how a microwave oven works. They microwaves are a form of EMF, non ionizing EMF. And you can see if you get powerful enough ones, you can cook your food. And all of the regulations that exist and again, they’re they’re not enough of them. They’re insufficient, they’re poorly enforced. But all of the regulations that exist exist solely to protect against that, right, the thermal effect, that cell phone, for instance, should not if you if you’re holding a cell phone up to your head, it should not be powerful enough, it should not emit powerful enough radiation to actually heat your tissue, because that is a very harmful impact. Now times they do

Raine Dunn 16:49
get warm light. So when that happens, something’s going wrong. Right. And it’s getting well,

R Blank 16:54
yeah. So as I said, the regulations are very poorly structured and poorly enforced. And yes, we all know that holding a phone up to your head, in certain instances leads to your ear feeling warm. And that is exactly the kind of thing it’s not supposed to happen. But anyway, that I was just trying to underscore that all of these effects that we started talking about, I’m sure we’ll continue talking about the cancers, the infertility, the bird migratory pattern, none of those are considered in regulation, right? Those are all occurring at levels far lower than what triggered the trigger the thermal effect,

Raine Dunn 17:26
seeing as we’re there now. Anyway, I’m going to skip down to the question about regulations. Okay, what can you tell us about the regulations for cellphones, for example?

R Blank 17:39
Well, so as I said, as a starting point, and there’s all sorts of problems with this, and I have a, I have a lot of content on this on my website. But as a starting point, right, cellphone radiation is regulated, only to protect you against the thermal effect. They are not designed to protect you against levels far lower than what triggered the thermal effect, but which science shows increases your risk for numerous negative health outcomes. But that’s just one problem with cell phone regulations. So another, and I’m going to I imagine your audience is international, most of my knowledge is about the United States. So I’m going to talk here specifically about the United States. Sure. But in the United States. The cellphone radiation is regulated by an entity called the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission. And when people hear that they think, Oh, the government is testing our phones. And that is not true, right? Because they are, what they do is they set standards. And then the companies go out and hire labs and run their own. So like Apple will go hire a lab to run its own test to see how much radiation the iPhone emits. So the government isn’t testing any of this stuff. They’re relying on companies contracting private tests from private laboratories, and then publishing that data. Now, there is an example out of France in the past few years, where the government actually did go and test about 300 models of cell phones. And it was about I believe it was 88% of the phones emitted more radiation than the manufacturer said, and several emitted more than were legally allowed and had to be recalled from the market until they were redesigned. So we see that it is a very poorly enforced mechanism. Now I mentioned for instance, the cellphone shouldn’t emit enough radiation to trigger the thermal effect. The way they measure it is again in the United States is using a dummy that emulates a 220 pound man. And approximately 95% of the population is smaller than a 200. Yeah. I’m not many men

Raine Dunn 20:01
are that big? Yeah, that’s mentioned women and children.

R Blank 20:05
Yeah, exactly. And, and so 95% of the population will actually absorb more radiation than the dummy that they’re using as the benchmark. There’s also, companies are allowed to position the devices however they want during these tests. So for instance, if you open an iPhone manual, you will see that there is a minimum degree of separation that they say you need to have. I was really

Raine Dunn 20:31
shocked when I heard this, because nobody knows that everybody’s holding the phone right up to the ear.

R Blank 20:36
Yeah, and carrying it in their pocket, or their bras while they’re working out. Yeah. And but but in order to maintain the level that they measured in the lab, you, you have to keep a minimum distance of separation. And they designed the product to be held up against your head, but then they tell you not to hold it up against your head, but it’s all in the fine print inside the manuals that no one ever reads. And so these are some of the examples of why cell phone radiation regulations are so fundamentally flawed. And leaving aside the fact that they’re the again in the United States, there they are 25 years old. Right? So technology has evolved so much since then. And I don’t mean, just, you know, oh, we have more of it. I mean, literally, the way technology works, that the networks are built differently, the protocols are different. The antennas work differently. And the regulations have not updated at all in that time. There is another another flaw in the whole conception of these regulations that I do want to highlight, which is they are only designed to be they all only consider a single source. Right. So they’re like, they tell you how much a cell phone can maximally admit. But But when are we ever exposed to a single source of EMF anymore? Exactly. So there is there is no consideration for Concurrent exposures and cumulative exposure. So according to these regulations, if you are exposed to radiation from one cell phone for 10 minutes, right, it’s effectively the same as if you are exposed to radiation from five cellphones and 10 Wi Fi networks for five hours a day for 10 years. Right? That makes no sense. But that’s exactly how the whole structure of the regulations are built is without any consideration for these concurrent and cumulative exposures over time.

Raine Dunn 22:42
Yeah, so what I’m hearing is that there’s perhaps a public perception that this is something that is regulated for our safety, but in effect, it’s really not being right. It’s not. I mean, if studies are being done by the companies themselves, there’s a bias there. Clearly, yes. So I wouldn’t press those studies.

R Blank 23:01
Exactly. And again, when you actually went when governments and other entities actually go and verify, or attempt to verify they find different levels than what the companies themselves are reporting. And but at least you know, at least with cell phones, at least there are regulations, right, because, and again, I’m speaking here, specifically about the United States, but power lines are totally not regulated. Unless you’re unless you’re to like a power plant worker, but I’m talking about for consumers. There’s just no regulation as to how much EMF can come off of a power line or a transformer in front of your house. And there are all sorts of classes of exposures that are unregulated another is cars, there’s there’s, at least as far as I’ve been able to tell, there are no regulations governing how much EMF your car can expose you. And you certainly can’t find Yeah, and you certainly can’t find the EMF exposure information anywhere because we have tried. So because we get a lot of questions that shield your body about, you know, what, you know, what am I going to get if I if I buy a new Tesla, what what is my exposure gonna be? And we have to say, look, we we have no idea because they don’t publish that information. If you contact them, they won’t share that. And for that, you know, whoever tested for it at all. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

Raine Dunn 24:19
yeah. Let’s talk about microwaves. Because I was quite surprised recently, I, I shared something to my social media about microwaves. And I was surprised at how many people it seemed weren’t really aware of the fact that microwaves are so damaging to me. I, I mean, I threw my microwave out when I was pregnant, which was 1011 years ago. Even prior to that I can remember as a kid, we had a microwave in our house, but my mom always told me, never stand in front of it. When it’s on, like put it on walk away. Don’t be close to it. So I grew up with this understanding that you need to be careful around a microwave. So even as an adult, when I had one, I never really used it. And then, when I was pregnant, I just, I’m gonna call it My body’s intuition. I just became really aware of this. Well, you know, my house and I didn’t want to anywhere near my body.

R Blank 25:19
Yeah. And and again, I don’t know if it’s the same over by you. But in the United States, the manuals recommend against pregnant women using microwaves. Wow, it’s another one of these things that you have to read the manual for? Yeah, yeah. Many people even know that. So microwave ovens are incredibly powerful sources of exposure. And it’s actually it’s a double whammy, right? Because the microwaves themselves are a form of non ionizing EMF, that, again, generated a power levels high enough to cook food, right, so really high power levels. And but but in order to generate microwaves with that amount of power, the power system of the microwave is a tremendous source of elf or extremely low frequency. And so so you’re hit with the microwaves, but you’re also hit with the elf EMF coming from from the motor or the the mechanism that generates the microwaves. There’s no shielding of the elf at all right? Because that’s not something that they shield against. Now, people think that microwave ovens are shielded so that the microwaves themselves can’t leak out. Now, it is true that microwave ovens are shielded. But what most people don’t know is that there is a permitted level of leakage at the time of sale. And then it’s another one of these things, if you read the manual, they recommend that you have your microwave serviced annually in order to maintain shielding, the seal, I have never met once a person who has had their microwave serviced, never once no one does, I don’t even know who I would call to have a microwave oven service. But so, so you’re getting a huge elf exposure. Which is, which is the kind of EMF that’s that comes off of power lines and so forth. And then you’re getting significant microwave exposure. And you can you can measure it with with a meter, I mean, the numbers are unbelievably high, just standing in front of it. And if people want a simple test, if your listeners want a simple test, put a cell phone in the microwave, don’t turn it on, in fact, just to be safe, unplugged the microwave, and then put a cell phone in it, and then close the door and then call the cell phone. And you will see that the signal gets through. And so that is so yeah, you I never have owned a microwave. I’ve had them in rentals. And I you know, I admit I’ll you know, if I’m in an air b&b And we’re watching a movie or something. I’ll make some popcorn in it. But that’s my entire exposure of microwave ovens. So you want to stay as far away as possible. When if you do use a microwave oven, you want to stand as far away as possible while it’s in use, ideally in a different room.

Raine Dunn 28:21
Yeah, so the cell phone ringing inside the microwave shows that the microwave is not shielded.

R Blank 28:28
Yeah, well, it it’s not perfectly shielded. Yeah, that allows leakage. Yeah.

Raine Dunn 28:32
Yeah. I just want to circle back to cell phones again. How would you recommend to use a cell phone safely? Because I mean, the reality is that we all use them every day. We’re not going to stop using

R Blank 28:42
them. Yeah, right. No, I mean, I have one right here. So there’s a few things that are important. So number one, it’s the number one thing I tell people all the time, whether even if they’re not specifically asked me about cell phones, they’re asking what can I do about EMF is never carry your phone in your pocket or your bra. When you are doing that you are exposing it. And the reason is, the power of EMF radiation diminishes exponentially with distance. So let’s imagine you have your phone, you know, an inch away from your body, and then you put it two inches away from your body, you’ve now cut the power of your exposure by 75%, just by moving from one inch to two inches away. So conversely, when it’s right up against your body, you’re getting a maximum possible dose of radiation that that device has. And these things are very powerful sources right hence the the name of the book overpowered right because these things have so much power. They are designed to communicate for several miles right to reach a cell tower. And that is just the cell phone connection. Right because then there’s also increase on most phones. You’ll have Wi Fi you’ll have Bluetooth, you’ll have NFC See, which is near field communication, which is what they use for like Apple Pay and Google Pay. So there’s multiple wireless cards in your phone, all operating at once. And you are exposing yourself to a very powerful source. And generally for extended periods of time, right, you don’t put your phone in your pocket for five seconds, you put it in there for hours you spend it, that’s where it spends the day. And so you really should stop doing that, or put it into airplane mode, if you have to carry it on your person. And I know a lot of people who like working out with their phones, if I if I can’t work out at home, if I have to go to a gym, I like working out with my phone. And I what I do is I download the podcasts, and then I put my phone into airplane mode and listen to the podcast offline while I’m while I’m exercising. Yeah, so that is the number one thing is stopping carrying it in fact that even even if you have all sorts of EMF exposures in your life, even if they’re you know, you look out your window, you see a bunch of cell towers, and you live in an apartment building and look at the Wi Fi and you see 25 networks, right, they can still it can still be that the phone in your pocket is one of the biggest sources, if not the biggest source of your personal exposure, because of the characteristics that I was just outlining. So for the same reason, you should never hold a phone up to your head. And in fact, that’s why I don’t make a phone and EMF protection phone case. Because I don’t want to imply that there is a safer way of holding a phone up to your head. Because there isn’t one it is super harmful type of exposure. And it’s obviously it’s right at a really important part of your body. Right? It’s, it’s very close to your brain. But it’s not only close to your brain, it’s close to your brain at a part of your brain where there’s, there’s a hole in the skull, right. That’s how the ear works. There’s a hole in your skull there. So the you’re not even getting the limited degree of natural shielding that bone would provide between the phone and your brain. But it’s not just your brain, it’s also very close to your eyes. It’s also very close to several important nerves that run through your head. So never hold your phone up, up to your head. You always use speakerphone or wired headset. The third thing and I see you have a follow up. So let me just get the third thing out real quick is don’t sleep with your phone. Right? Yeah. Or, or once again, put it into airplane mode. If you do when you use airplane mode, you are essentially cutting out all the EMF, there’s still going to be a little bit from the battery. But it’s like it’s almost nothing compared to when the phone is actually out of airplane mode. So Airplane Mode is a super powerful tactic in this process.

Raine Dunn 32:48
I’m so happy to hear that because I put my phone on airplane mode at nights when I go to bed. Only because the cellphone company is very sneakily made the phone such that you can’t set an alarm to like switch the phone on in the morning, because that would be my ideal is to switch the phone off. But then you can’t set an alarm. So for that reason, I just put it on airplane mode. I do actually I have been meaning to get like an old school alarm clock. But the problem is I use like nice, gentle music to wake me up as my alarm. I don’t want something blaring

R Blank 33:27
I understand how can I actually have an analog battery powered? Oh, for people who are looking for alarm clocks, to replace their phone, get them battery powered and get them without LED displays. Because if you have like a unit that plugs into the wall and has like the LED like the bright red numbers, that is a super high source of EMF also. So you don’t want to replace the cell phone with that. So get a battery powered one without an LED display. But thank you. Yeah, but I still so I have one of those. I have a small it’s adorable little analog battery powered cost like $11 on Amazon. It works great. But there are still times I use my cell phone as my alarm. Because it depends how it depends on what time I have to wake up and how optimistic I am that I will wake up on the first alarm, right? Because Because I on the phone you can set like a cascade of multiple alarms and I try to wake up very early. I try to wake up at like, four 430 and some days. That’s fine. And then other days I’m like No Ma’am, what do you think? And so I wait till the five o’clock alarm and then the 530 alarm. So yeah, no, I

Raine Dunn 34:42
Yeah. Snooze. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I need to sneezes before I can get up. It’s like my cuddle time.

R Blank 34:52
There is and this is a little bit off topic so we don’t have to dive into it. But just to point out there are a growing number of studies showing Not sleeping with your phone. It reduces your sleep quality, even if it’s totally off. And it’s because of our psychological relationships with our devices and the the kind of serotonin poll of like, I shouldn’t be checking, oh, maybe it’ll get me notified. And you because your, your physiological body doesn’t process at the device is off. And you have this kind of Pavlovian response to the proximity of this serotonin delivery device. Yeah. So if people are having issues with their sleep, which almost everyone is, sleeping with your phone outside of the bedroom is better than even sleeping with your phone off in the bedroom.

Raine Dunn 35:43
Yes, ideally, I would like to put my phone off and outside of my bedroom, that is what I want to do. So I really just do need to get an analog alarm clock.

R Blank 35:52
There you go. So those were the three big things with phones. Now. If we have time, I will say one more note about airplane mode. Because I said it’s a very important tool in the toolkit of EMF protection. What I also like to underscore for people is that airplane mode has multiple options, right. So it’s not just I mean, you can do a blanket airplane mode, like put my phone into airplane mode. But you can also do it like I’m going to shut off the cell phone, keep on the Wi Fi, turn off the Bluetooth, right, so you want to make sure to turn off all the wireless connections that you’re not actually using. And by doing that, even if you’re still have one of them on, you’ve really cut the you’ve really cut your exposure,

Raine Dunn 36:36
I see what you’re saying. So say for example, I’m at home and I’m connecting my phone to my speaker to play some music, I can keep the Bluetooth on but then switch off the cell phone and the wireless.

R Blank 36:49
Yep. And increasingly, both iPhone and Android, you can customize the I don’t know what they call this screen. But that quick access thing where you can go into airplane mode, you can customize that with all of the individual connections. So you can just quickly enable and disable Bluetooth or Wi Fi or the cell data and so on. And so it’s so without having to go into settings. So you can make it very easy to do is my point.

Raine Dunn 37:19
Something that you just mentioned is about not holding the phone up to your ear, which I think is something people sort of started becoming aware of and then for that reason started using headphones instead. But now everybody’s switching over to air pods. And I don’t know if they’re just doing it for convenience, or do they actually believe that it’s better than holding the phone up to your ear? Because I as soon as a pod came out, I was just like, that’s a hard no for me. Yeah.

R Blank 37:44
So that is one of the devices because i i There are there are people out there who who care about the EMF issue, who really preach a lower tech vision, like you should be getting rid of this, you shouldn’t be using this. And in general, I take the opinion or the perspective of No, it’s about it’s about finding safer ways to use this technology. It’s not about getting rid of the technology. But then they introduce certain products like the air pods. And And my reaction is no no, don’t, there is no because there is no safer way to use an air pod. Right? You can’t increase the distance between the air pod and your body because it has to be worn right in your ear. You can’t put shielding in between the air pod and your body because it has to be worn right in the air. And so there is no safer way to do to use this stuff. And the use cases it encourages, right people generally don’t put in air pods for just five minutes. They work out with them or they carry them around. I’ve seen people who work with them just in the ear so they can be all Star Trek future. And like, you know, when someone calls, they just nod and they start a conversation. But what people need to understand. And this is a really good example. technology like this is deployed before the testing is done. They do not have to prove that these things are safe. Over the all they have to do is prove that they don’t burn you. They don’t have to prove that they are safe over the one year, or the five year or the tenure or the 30 year horizon. We are the lab subjects. And so this is exactly how cell phones were released. And now all these years later, we finally have the data on cell phones. Wi Fi followed so now we’re starting to get data on Wi Fi. Bluetooth is basically brand new. But from an from a physiological perspective, it’s almost identical to Wi Fi. And so when you’re putting it right there and kids I mean the kids are using this stuff that

Raine Dunn 39:53
is what is horrifying me is when I see kids with an iPad and wireless headphones And who knows how much of their day they’re spending like that?

R Blank 40:03
Yeah. And there’s no, there’s, it’s I mean, so people like us can make some educated guesses as to what the harm will be. But there is absolutely no data as to what the impact will be on these children in 10 years.

Raine Dunn 40:16
Yeah, it’s almost like the burden of proof is on us as the consumers to prove that they are bad. Yeah, that’s exactly the not being the other way around, which is how it should be. Um, so I have a bit of thing with a pods because my partner got a pair of air pods last year at some time. And he was like, all excited about them. And I was like, huh, and I didn’t really say too much about it. And then he lost his air pods. And I was super relieved that they once they were lost, I started sharing with him information about how bad air pods are, how high the EMF saw. And he was like, sort of agreeing with me. He was like, okay, just as well, but I lost them. And then a couple of months ago, he went and bought a new pair. And that’s actually partly why I wanted to do this episode. I hope you’re listening my love, I love you. And if episode just for you, and it’s actually become a little, like a point of contention in our relationship, because I can see that every time I bring up the air pods. He gets frustrated with me. I don’t I try not to like nag him about it the whole time. But, you know, it’s just coming from love. I’m just concerned about what he’s doing.

R Blank 41:33
You know, I have similar similar things in my relationship. And I take it really personally because this is this is like my life’s mission. Yeah. It’s not a big thing in your life. It’s like, sweetie, airplane mode, put it into airplane, you know? If, but yeah, so I know, I know, the struggle is real. Even, you know, even I work with people who are like building biologists who, who help clients or, and you know, these issues. I mean, they can cause divorce. You know, if someone is EMF sensitive, which is actually a condition we should probably

Raine Dunn 42:10
talk about. We are going to talk about that later. Yeah.

R Blank 42:14
If someone’s EMF sensitive, and their partner doesn’t believe it, you know, and so the one who’s sensitive wants wants them to stop using a cell phone or keep it out of the bedroom and the other one it can it has led to to divorce.

Raine Dunn 42:29
Yeah. The other device that my partner and I have have a little thing about is he’s got one of those smartwatches and ready for a long time I think even before I really became as aware of EMFs as I have been lately. I just I don’t want that thing in my bed.

R Blank 42:52
Yeah, no, I I totally recommend against using smartwatches that said it is possible to do so. It so for instance, I do make a product that reduces your exposure to radiation from a smartwatch. So with the thing I was saying is not possible with air pods. It is possible with smartwatches. So you can get shielding under the smartwatch. But so so it’s basically a wristband of made of shielding material. And so you put on the wristband and then you put on the smartwatch over it. Now I’m not saying people should use a smartwatch, but at least we have a solution for that one.

Raine Dunn 43:27
We’re gonna get into how your products work a little bit later, but just from my understanding of how it works with that band, that would protect your own body from the radiation going into your restaurant, but not me as his partner sleeping next to him if he was wearing one of those bands, right? into my body, right? Yeah, yes.

R Blank 43:45
It does not impact. Yeah.

Raine Dunn 43:46
So I mean, when when I was first seen sort of about the watch being in the room, for me, I thought that it was more a case of like, I want my bedroom to be like a haven from technology. I don’t want phones on I don’t have a TV in my bedroom. I don’t want that type of stuff in our sleeping area. And so I felt like maybe that that was it. Like I just I don’t want the phone buzzing when there’s a mess. I mean, the watch buzzing when there’s message and all of that. But in hindsight, I think that maybe I’m actually sensitive to all of these devices, because I have a very connected relationship with my body and my Pilates instructor. I’ve spent very many years in nurturing a relationship with my body and being aware of the signals my body gives me so I’m feeling like maybe it’s actually just my body warning me against these things. Yeah, coming off.

R Blank 44:39
Totally makes sense. I mean, it’s also healthy to step back and think like, why do I need all this stuff? Right? I mean, we obviously a lot of us need cell phones. A lot of us need computers, but these companies are selling, designing and selling so many new sets of products and and kind of the default reaction is oh, if Apple is going to release Don’t think I need to go buy it because Apple is cool. So but why do you need a smartwatch? The variety of smart tech that is coming out is is kind of mind boggling. So, I mean, obviously we we’ve heard of things like smart refrigerators. I have never heard of a single compelling use case to justify a smart fridge. Not Not one.

Raine Dunn 45:20
No. Fancy.

R Blank 45:22
Yeah. Now, thermostats. Yeah, exactly. And so why get it? Now, people have heard compelling use cases, for instance, for Nest thermostats, and for smart locks. But not everyone needs them. So some people. So that’s an example of where you actually can start engaging in a cost benefit analysis, like what value does this product add to my life? And is it worth it? But there’s all sorts of other products out there. Like I said, smart fridge, but they get ridiculous. They’re smart hair brushes, that give you feedback to your phone on to the quality of your hair. There are smart kitty litter boxes that give you feedback to your phone on the nature of your kiddies waste. There. There’s literally smart tampons.

Raine Dunn 46:10
Yeah, this I found really shocking. I heard you speak about this in another podcast. I actually went and googled it today, just to read up on it. And that’s really concerning. You’re putting it right up there by your reproductive organs.

R Blank 46:24
Yeah, it’s a super vulnerable spot. And it’s

Raine Dunn 46:27
so so just crazy that tech is going in that direction. Like why do we need to?

R Blank 46:33
I know it’s Yeah, yeah. But the regulations don’t protect against these sorts of things. So there’s no there’s no regulatory pressure to guide or limit or minimize the number of products that are, you know, quote, unquote, smart in our lives are available for sale. And there isn’t consumer awareness, a sufficient degree of consumer awareness yet, yeah, that are driving companies to build safer products. And so, so companies are just turning in, and the cost of that technology just keeps going down and down and down. So it becomes more feasible to make every little thing smart. And you take those basic market dynamics, and you have this, you’re creating this, this very toxic situation for humanity. And I think it’s important just to kind of hone in on this for one quick second, which is, you know, because we, there’s a bias in our perspective, that the way things are is the way things have always been right. And you know, the world is changing very quickly. But also, like, you don’t realize quite how much it has changed. So let me let me let me step back a second and give this specific example. Which is, think back to your bedroom when you were a child. And how many wireless devices did you have in that room? I had a lamp. I had a lamp and I had a radio. And I think I had a record player. Kitty one night. Yeah, I read it was orange, I like orange. So but now look at an average kids room. And they might have I mean, they probably have a cell phone, they probably have an iPad, they may have a laptop, they may have a Nintendo Switch, they may have Bluetooth headsets, and that’s just in their bedroom. Now go step out into further into the house. And so the way things are now, it’s like way more EMF exposure than even when we were growing up. And by the time today’s kids are our, our, our our age, it will be way, way more. And so and all of the science as I was talking about, right if it’s a trailing indicator, because the science that we have is talking about the exposures that we had five years ago and 10 years ago and 20 years ago, they’re not talking about today’s exposures, we have to wait another 510 15 years to get information about today’s exposures, but by that point, the exposures will be much greater. And that is really the situation that that we are facing.

Raine Dunn 49:06
So like with my son, he has an iPad and a Nintendo Switch, neither of which I wanted him to have. But his father and his father’s mom bought them for him. I have limits as to how much he can use them. And at night, I switch them off, and I take them out of his room. I don’t I don’t want them in his room when he’s sleeping. And now also, since we listened to that podcast that you were on the other day, I told him as well because he has a limit of 30 minutes on the iPad. And once your 30 minutes is up, put it on airplane mode or switch it off entirely so that it’s not sitting in your room and still sending EMFs your way. But also, we had a discussion about this because we were listening to your podcast together. And we were talking about see I love your perspective on saying that it’s not about just cutting out tech and you know becoming a Luddite and going to live in a cave because this is the wall We live in. We live in the modern world, we need cell phones, we use our laptops. I mean, it allows us to do things like this podcast. But how can we be more conscious of choosing our, our exposure to ambient EMFs and limiting where it’s not necessary. So I was saying to Gabby, my son, like a really good example, because people are not aware, consciously aware of this. And they’re not making conscious decisions when they buy these products. Say, for example, they were to come up with, and I’m sure they already have, let’s say, there’s a smart toothbrush for kids, and it connects to your mom’s phone. And then it tells you that a kid did in fact, brush his teeth for two minutes this morning. See, we’ve been having a discussion about the tooth brushing lately. So this is why I thought about this example. Now, if I wasn’t aware of EMS, I would see that and go, Oh, wow, this is amazing. It’s going to reduce this argument with my child, it’s going to make sure that he really does brush his teeth for two minutes, every morning and every night. And then a hate, they’re going to buy this product. But then that means that every morning and every night, their child has this device in their hand and in their mouth. And they don’t even realize what they’re exposing their child to and then that’s just one device. And then it just like all piles up one after the other.

R Blank 51:11
Yes, No, exactly. That’s the that’s the thing, that number of these devices. So I strongly advocate that people really, when when you’re buying, or you’re considering buying a new piece of technology to really think about the value it adds. Now let’s say in that example, that you just had, that your child just refuses to brush his teeth, he lies about brushing his teeth, and his teeth are having some serious issues. And, and so that that would be one where you actually can think like, okay, yes, it is more EMF exposure, but I really need him to brush his teeth, he needs these teeth for the rest of his life. Dental, mouth hygiene is very important for overall bodily health, right? And so you can engage in that process, and then maybe say, yes, okay, I think we need to do this, because the kid just isn’t telling me the truth about brushing his teeth. And then, you know, six months, eight months later, the habits are formed. And then you can switch back to a regular toothbrush. And I’m not saying that’s what you should do. But I’m saying that’s an example of the type of cost benefit analysis that I think people need to engage in with all of this tech is being marketed to us in increasing variety of products.

Raine Dunn 52:24
Yeah, I love that point. I think that it’s just about it being a conscious decision, and actually weighing up the pros and cons. And deciding, okay, this device is really going to add a lot of value in my life. So it’s worth that extra EMF radiation, as opposed to just willy nilly buying everything because it’s shiny and fancy and new.

R Blank 52:41
Exactly. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly. And it because I used to work in the tech sector, Apple was actually a client of mine. I know the bias of Oh, the new tech, and you just, Oh, I hear this is coming out, I really want it and and what we have to do is get away from that. I mean, for for a whole bunch of reasons. But for the purposes of this discussion, from the EMF exposure, right, because there’s just so much of it, that the only ways that we’re going to be making a start making dents in our exposures is by saying no to a lot of these products. And when we do choose them to engage with them in an intentional mindful manner. So that you know exactly you know what, why you’re using it. And you’re very specific in how you relate to the to the tech.

Raine Dunn 53:34
Yeah. And I think that just circling back to that point you made earlier about why why do you feel the need to have this thing and I think it really goes back to this addiction that we have to take and being constantly connected. I mean, one of the the major reasons that I don’t like the smartwatches is because every time you get a message or a notification on your phone, it’s buzzing on your skin. So it’s creating this neural pathway in your body that’s just making you even more addicted to constantly being in contact and constantly being available and having to reply immediately. Which is from the EMF thing, I think is just not healthy.

R Blank 54:11
No, it’s totally not and what your listener what I’d like your listeners to know. And, again, it’s off this specific topic of EMF, but it’s very related to our EMF exposures is is that these products are engine designed and engineered to maximize addiction. So it’s not like we’re talking in metaphorical terms like, Oh, you’re addicted to your phone. It’s like no, they’ve literally designed and engineered your phone to be as addictive as possible. They’ve designed and engineered the Facebook app to be as addictive as possible. The Tick Tock app, all of these experience, the devices and the experiences, they literally they hire experts in clinical behavior and psychology to design these products and then they test them to maximize engagement in ways And so it really is. I mean, it really is a very nefarious sort of sentiment really,

Raine Dunn 55:07
like I get so angry, we’re not getting these.

R Blank 55:11
Because, you know, when when they engineered tobacco to be as addictive as possible, it took a while, but they got in a lot of trouble about that. But when it happens in tech, no one cares, because they’re not viewing the negative outcomes as negative outcomes. But we see that increasingly, right we have these negative outcomes. And again, I do want to get back specifically to EMF because I know that’s why I’m here. But we see Facebook knows that it is harming the mental state of teenagers. They know it, they’ve studied that. And but that isn’t that kind of. So the fact that they are designing their products to be maximally addictive in ways that are leading to negative outcomes, right, we’re still not regulating these products, the way that we regulate it, for example, tobacco.

Raine Dunn 55:57
Yeah, it is really concerning. And I mean, I think the levels of addiction to social media and to take into devices, really is rivaling drug addiction and alcohol addiction, and perhaps even already way worse, because as you say, it’s not regulated, it’s freely given to children, there’s no control this, and I’m very concerned about the way that it is shaping our children’s brains to grow up in this environments, where they are at such an early age exposed to devices and social media, in a lot of homes with no parameters set in place. Right. And I believe, I mean, I’m not an expert on psychology or developments of the brain. But just as a mother, my intuition is telling me that you are actually physically affecting the way your child’s brain will develop if you are offering such an addictive thing to them.

R Blank 56:52
Yes, yes, for sure. And it’s, again, it’s one of these things where we’re just starting to get science on it. But but the science is painting that picture pretty pretty, pretty clearly that it is in impacting all impacts child’s development in so many different ways. It impacts the development of their memory and impacts their development of visual and spatial learning and understanding. It impacts their attention spans and impacts their their ability to sleep, which then has knock on effects, right, because when you’re not sleeping enough, all sorts of other issues can manifesting and be exacerbated. And EMF is a part of that. But it is only a part of that right, though.

Raine Dunn 57:39
They they social interactions, how they socially engage.

R Blank 57:43
Yes, yeah. And again, you know, it’s we’re only just now beginning to understand this stuff. But there’s a there’s a bias against regulating technology. And it’s, I think we’ve started to, and obviously, I care about the EMF issue, but I’m talking about in general, regulating technology in general is super challenging. There’s because of this pro tech bias that everyone implicitly has. And you don’t view tech as this thing that is harmful. It is always helpful. And that is that is what set up this groundwork. So on my last season on my podcast, we had a Member of Parliament, a member of the EU Parliament, and he is the he is leading the charge for some something called the right to disconnect. Have you heard have the right to disconnect?

Raine Dunn 58:37
I haven’t. But that sounds wonderful.

R Blank 58:40
So it’s already the law in a few EU nations, like France and Portugal and Italy, I believe, and Ireland. But he’s leading the charge to actually make it the law in across the entire EU. And the idea is that your employer is not allowed to text you after you leave work, basically. Yeah. And that’s a very simple Listen, very simplified presentation of it, but it is that your your employer can expect you to be connected after work hours have ended. That cannot be a requirement of your job. And again, that’s it’s already the law in several countries in Europe, and it’s probably going to become the law across the EU. Now when I talk to Americans about that law. It blows their mind that such a thing like that would even be possible. Because in America regulating technology is just not something that is just not something that you do. And

Raine Dunn 59:34
my understanding is that in America, the word culture is quite similar to here in South Africa, which is quite different to what it is in Europe, which is in South Africa, you’re expected to always be available. And you must apologize when you go on holiday. Whereas in Europe, they’re they’re much more protective of the free time in their life away from work.

R Blank 59:56
And quality of life is important. Yeah, they’re there. Exactly.

Raine Dunn 1:00:00
And I’m so glad you told me about this right to disconnect. And I think that’s really great. Because, for example, like when you speak about putting your phone on airplane mode, the first thing that comes to my mind is open. I can’t do that, because then how will people call me or I’ll miss the messages. And then I thought about that afterwards. And I was like, this is actually one of the major problems of the way in which we use tech today is that we are now expected to constantly be available. And to always be answering the phone always respond to a message. And if you don’t answer a phone call, or you don’t respond to a message, like within a couple of days, it’s expected that you must apologize. You must say, I’m sorry, I missed your call, or I’m sorry that I didn’t respond to your message. And I mean, if we think back to when we were kids, you had a landline. And you could only answer it if you were in the house. And if you heard it, and if you ran and got to it in time,

R Blank 1:00:58
and weren’t already on the feds. Yeah, and you weren’t already on the phone. Yeah. And that was said,

Raine Dunn 1:01:02
and that was the only way somebody could get ahold of you, or they would need to come to your front door. Whereas now we’re living in the state where we are constantly online. And when I say online, I don’t actually mean online on the internet. I mean, our brains and our bodies are constantly online, to be available to whoever wants to contact you. And then people get angry with you if you don’t want to respond to their message immediately, because they can see that you’re online on WhatsApp or whatever it is.

R Blank 1:01:32
Leave you on read.

Raine Dunn 1:01:33
Yeah. So I think it’s really that brighter disconnect is a really great thing, which I hope will be incorporated. In Yeah,

R Blank 1:01:42
no, it’s great and made or no and, and it’s another one of these, it’s an example of one of these things that’s not really about EMF, but it is about EMF, because of course it’s about your it’s it’s about your right to just be left alone. But also, it implicitly is saying I do not need to expose myself to additional EMF radiation when I’m not at work. And that’s so the all of the way in which we relate to the technology around us is really the main driver of our personal exposures. And and and that is that is kind of that’s why I brought it up. That’s why I liked I really liked that episode, I’ll send you the link after we’re done here. Right?

Raine Dunn 1:02:23
It could in the show notes as well. Thank you. Yeah, and

R Blank 1:02:28
but there’s so many issues that are directly tied to EMF and, and tech addiction is another one of these because I’m not a I’m not an addiction expert. But I’m smart enough to know that when you make a product that leads to EMF exposure, addictive, you are increasing EMF exposure and people. And so it is very hard to talk about a sane relationship with technology to reduce your EMF exposure unless we start to confront issues of actual addiction.

Raine Dunn 1:02:58
Yeah, no, I agree. Totally. I love that you brought up that point. So it’s, it’s not just about us making our decisions about how we operate with our devices. But I think it’s a larger cultural issue of the psychology behind how we’re using tech. Yes, yeah. And that’s a conversation that needs to be had publicly as much as up to each individual to say, Okay, I’m gonna use my phone. Let’s, we’re gonna put it on airplane mode. I think it’s a much larger cultural conversation. Well, I

R Blank 1:03:27
agree. But I also like focusing on what people can do individually, rather than trying to change the whole world. So with

Raine Dunn 1:03:35
this episode, I do want to empower people with how they can simply and easily in their day to day lifestyle to limit their exposure. So that’s actually what I would like to speak about next is what can we do in our homes to reduce or limit our exposure to EMFs?

R Blank 1:03:51
Okay, so while I talked about the three, the three things with cell phone hygiene earlier, right, so don’t carry your phone in your pocket or your bra, don’t sleep with your phone, and don’t hold it up to your head. Now, those are huge. And I want to, I’m happy to repeat them here, because I believe they’re very important. These are all examples of what I call the two key rules of EMF protection, right? So there’s minimize and maximize, you want to minimize your use of EMF emitting technology. And you want to maximize the distance between your body and the technology when it is in use. So by minimizing use of technology, we talked about this right? Don’t get the smart fridge. All right, get the regular fridge, like don’t get the smart tamp. Please don’t get nobody. I think we’ve optimized that technology, honestly looking, you know, decades ago. And so you really don’t use don’t don’t buy air pods, right? So minimizing it That’s one example is selecting in this engaging in this process of selecting which technologies you actually allow into your Life. But then there’s other ways of minimizing. Right. So Wi Fi, people who take EMF issues very seriously often get rid of Wi Fi, and they replace it with Ethernet in there. So they have wired internet in their homes. But I deal with a lot of people all the time, who who want to minimize their EMF exposure, but aren’t willing to take that step of wiring their homes for internet. And so a good example, another good example of minimizing is to turn off your Wi Fi at night when you’re not using that. And, and so, right, because otherwise, you’re you’re being exposed to it, the radiation from your Wi Fi all night long, when you’re not getting any value out of that

Raine Dunn 1:05:41
exposure. And while you’re sleeping, which is when your body is supposed to be repairing itself.

R Blank 1:05:46
Exactly. Yeah. So these are examples of minimized right, minimizing your use of technology. Now, the second one is Mac,

Raine Dunn 1:05:53
I’m going to interrupt because I do have a question on the Ethernet. If, for example, I choose to wire so my TV, and my laptop, so I use Ethernet for the TV and the laptop. But now I still need the Wi Fi for, say my cell phone or the

R Blank 1:06:10
iPad. They do sell adapters,

Raine Dunn 1:06:14
reducing the amounts by having a URL is on the Wi Fi.

R Blank 1:06:18
Yes, you are. Because the for a couple of reasons. One is, if you’re for instance, your your computer is wired, that means the Wi Fi is off on your computer, which means your computer isn’t a source, an additional source of Wi Fi radiation. Alright, so even secondary

Raine Dunn 1:06:33
routes is still on and is emitting EMFs, you’ve switched off the Wi Fi EMF from the laptop. So it’s one? That’s

R Blank 1:06:41
correct. That’s one, then the second is the more data that’s being transmitted over Wi Fi the more power of the radiation. Oh, I

Raine Dunn 1:06:49
did not know that.

R Blank 1:06:50
Yeah. So. So if you’re taking a segment of the traffic from your home network and putting it onto wired connections, you are reducing the amount that is going out over the Wi Fi connection. That’s really helpful. But also to just in response to your question. They do sell adapters, Ethernet adapters for phones and tablets. Oh, interesting. So they go in through like, if you have an iPad, what do they have the lightning Jack? Right? So you get lightning to Ethernet adapter. Okay, and if you have an Android, you’d get a USBC to Ethernet adapter.

Raine Dunn 1:07:25
Good to know. And then what is dual band? Because I heard you talking about this? I don’t know what it is what understand how Yeah, so

R Blank 1:07:35
I think I know what you’re talking about. So increasingly, Wi Fi routers come with the ability to run two networks. So one operates at 2.4 gigahertz frequency, and the other one operates at five gigahertz frequency, which I just want to say, because I get this question a lot. That is not 5g, it’s just five gigahertz Wi Fi, okay. And, and so five, the five gigahertz network can often be faster, but it doesn’t travel as far and the 2.4 gigahertz network will travel further in your home. And by default, and increasingly, this is how all routers, I don’t know if you’re sure that it’s all routers, but increased sign testers,

Raine Dunn 1:08:17
because like when I when I want to connect, say on my laptop to the Wi Fi, sometimes it’ll show rain home five gigahertz, and sometimes it just says rain home.

R Blank 1:08:28
Yeah. So that so then you can log into your router, you would need to ask your ISP, your internet service provider how to do that. I mean, generally, it’s like loading up a browser and typing whatever it is 192168 0.1 But it can vary. And that you can log into your router and then turn off one of those networks.

Raine Dunn 1:08:50
Because when you have both of those networks running you have you’re getting more exposure the EMF exposure Yeah, yeah, crazy.

R Blank 1:09:01
So that was the first rule which is minimize the second rule is maximize. And I already talked about why this is so important. So I’ll just I’ll just repeat it quickly. Right, the power of EMF radiation diminishes exponentially with distance. So by creating additional inches between your tech and your body, you’re making a really big difference in your exposure. So I I use a laptop but I never use it in my lap. And in fact I have it set up with with an external keyboard so that I can keep the laptop further away from me and an external mouse and so forth. So distance really is your friend with all sources of EMF, the the more distance that you can create, the lower your exposure and the lower your health risk. So the example I gave from that was not carrying your phone in your pocket or your bra but there are plenty others right there’s not sleeping with your phone. Or some people want we both of us just had confessions or earlier in this conversation where sometimes we sleep with our phones, but we turn them into airplane mode, but some people can’t. Right? I remember once actually, I was on call for a relative who was in the hospital. And I needed to be available all night long for for weeks long call. And, and so so I needed my phone in the bedroom and I needed it to be on. So people ask me how far is safe? And you know, there’s no good answer to that. But I just as a rule of thumb, 10 feet. So if you can keep your phone 10 feet away from you. That’s a that’s a really good that that makes a really big difference versus keeping it next to your head. These people who sleep with their phones under their pillows. Oh my Please do not do Yeah,

Raine Dunn 1:10:48
yeah, that gives me hives just thinking about it.

R Blank 1:10:51
Another example of maximizing distance would be to keep your Wi Fi router as far away as possible from where you and your family spend your time. Okay, so

Raine Dunn 1:10:59
yeah, that was actually because this is something I always wonder about. So say, for example, we’re sitting and watching TV and our TV is in front of us and the Wi Fi router is behind us. Does that mean that the Wi Fi signal is like traveling straight through our bodies?

R Blank 1:11:13
Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, the Wi Fi signal is, is kind of it? Yes. But it doesn’t have that same kind of direction. It’s kind of going in every direction. Okay, so unless you’re in there, they’re they’re working to develop smarter forms of this type of technology, where the signal would only go point to point, but it’s really emanating out.

Raine Dunn 1:11:36
Okay, I got you. So it’s just going out 360 degrees, yes. And then it hits whatever you need it,

R Blank 1:11:42
which is why it’s so easy to hack Wi Fi, because it’s going in every direction. Okay, so those were the two key rules, minimize your use of EMF emitting technology and maximize the distance between the tech and your body when it is in use. And, and those are the key things that everyone needs to start with before spending any money on EMF protection products. That is those are where you are going to make the biggest differences in your exposure.

Raine Dunn 1:12:09
And something I’m just gonna throw something out there that popped into my mind, I understand that you probably cannot actually answer this question. But say, for example, I would say that my most direct contact with a device that emitting EMFs is my phone. And I don’t, generally I don’t spend a lot of time on phone calls. So it’s not really here. It’s more like in my hand. So if I’m doing emails, or I’m on social media, or I’m texting or whatever, so my phone is in my hand a lot of the time, would you say that that like constant, lifelong exposure of the phone on your hand is eventually going to cause say, for example, arthritis in your finger?

R Blank 1:12:48
Yeah, I don’t have data on that. I’m in general. You know, the hand is I mean, hands are very important, obviously. But they are not as important and as vulnerable as your brain or your reproductive organ. Yeah. And so, you know, I mean, if you can reduce the exposure to your hand, you know, I say go for it. But also, you know, try not to worry about it so much, because there’s enough to worry about in this world.

Raine Dunn 1:13:18
Right? takes so much to think about. Is it true that you can use crystals like, what’s it Orgonite or Shang guides to reduce EMF radiation?

R Blank 1:13:31
It is true that some people use them for that purpose.

Raine Dunn 1:13:36
That’s such a politically correct way of answering.

R Blank 1:13:41
I have not seen any I mean, so with a lot of this stuff. Okay. When I started sob, as you know, it was in part, building on my father’s legacy. My father was a scientist, he not only was he a scientist, he really believed in science, and he wanted things to be measured. He wanted things to be reproducible. And so as I got into the this arena of EMF protection, I have chosen to focus specifically on solutions that make demonstrable claims that are measurable and verifiable. Now, that doesn’t mean that products that don’t make that whose whose claims aren’t measurable, let’s just say that, whose claims are made doesn’t mean those don’t work. And I talked to people who say, you know, this Orgonite really helped me. And I talked to other people and like, no, it didn’t. And, you know, so if you’re using it, and it’s helping you, great, keep using it, if you’ve tried everything else, and you’re not getting relief. Sure, try it, but I am not going to be out there advocating for the use of products that do not make demonstrable, measurable claims.

Raine Dunn 1:14:53
I hear you might be the same answer to this question. But the other one I’ve heard is that if you have a lot of plants living plants in your home, it also helps to like they absorb. So

R Blank 1:15:02
I heard that. And I think I have no trouble believing it, it just turns out that it’s based on a study that no one can find. So, there the rumor was, I think that it was a NASA study that I can’t remember now, because we were looking into this last year, I wanted to do an article on it. And I asked Cathy Cook, who’s our in house EMF specialist and who’s a building biologist. And she told me this the background on this, which is, essentially that it seems to be an urban legend. But I could be wrong on that one, I just know that I looked into it. And we weren’t able to find the actual study that everyone is citing when they talk about the benefits of plants.

Raine Dunn 1:15:53
So actually, only just this week heard the term building biologist, I don’t think that we even have such a thing in South Africa, I might be wrong, but I’ve never heard about it before. So what is a building biologist?

R Blank 1:16:07
So well, a certified building biologist is someone who has been certified in the discipline of building biology by the building Biology Institute. And what they and I am not an expert on this, but I have I know several building biologists. And so it is the discipline of creating healthier homes and workplaces. That’s amazing, it will be based on the premise that we have effectively become indoor species, and the health of our architecture and our construction is directly impacting our health. So it has to do with construction materials, it has to do with pollutants, cleaning supplies, and it also has to do with EMF, so they have a separate EMF radio, they call it the electromagnetic radiation specialization. And so you can become a an environmental building biology, environmental consultant at BB EC, and then you can also become an electromagnetic radiation specialist. So a lot of these building biologists have have chosen to become specialists in EMF radiation, because of the role of the just how much EMF is in our homes and in our offices. And so it’s a I really like the Well, I really like them as, as a as an institution. They’re great to work with. But I also really like the building biologists and I really respect the the work that they do. And I believe that in time, they will get more recognition that they deserve.

Raine Dunn 1:17:41
Yeah, that sounds to me like something that should really become standard with the way that we’re living today. Thank you for just clarifying that for me.

R Blank 1:17:49
Sure. I actually have for those and I don’t know, maybe even you’re interested. I have a scholarship. For so let me just get the wording right, I’m pulling it up, I apologize. So it’s so it’s, it’s to become a building biology advocate. So, you know, I mentioned, they have a BB EC, right, the building biology, environmental consulting, and then the EMRs. So those are actual certifications, they take years and and, and travel to in person workshops, and so forth. But they also have a program called Building biology advocacy. And that is a shorter program. It is accessible purely online. And it teaches you all of the issues that building biology addresses, and it teaches you effectively how to become an advocate for building biology. And I running a scholarship that gives a free covers the full tuition of the building biology advocacy program. Amazing. That’s also Yeah. So if you’re interested or other people that you know who are listening or interested, that’s it shield, your body.com/scholarship. And you can read about it there. And there’s the application.

Raine Dunn 1:19:06
Oh, I will also put that in the show notes.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:09
Thank you.

Raine Dunn 1:19:11
What are your thoughts on 5g? Because when 5g was first like being talked about, and it’s gonna be launched soon, like, a lot of people were freaking out about it. And I just didn’t know how to feel about it. Because on the one hand, I was like, Yeah, this doesn’t sound good. On the other hand, what am I going to do about it? And then I was like, I wonder if we could build a Faraday cage over our house, because how else are we going to protect ourselves from this thing that is now just going to proliferate throughout industry?

R Blank 1:19:43
All over the globe? So quickly, you can actually build a Faraday cage over your house or you can actually Yeah, well, you probably wouldn’t do that right. What you would do and this is something that you would work ideally with a building biologists on is implement shielding in the home so for instance, they may shielding paints, you can put shielding materials into walls, you can do stuff like that. It’s complicated, and it’s expensive. And then it also comes at a cost to your lifestyle, right? So because once you do that you can’t be using the same technology in your home that you were used to using. So that’s actually exactly why I, that’s a good illustration of why I added canopies to my catalog, their bed canopies. And the because the idea is, you can’t shield your whole home very easily. Most people won’t do it. It’s very expensive. It’s complicated, it’s easy to get wrong. And but but you can shield your whole bed. And by doing so you’re creating a safer space for a big chunk of your day, not your whole day, but a big chunk of your day. And it’s that part of your day where your body is supposed to be resting and rejuvenating, and so forth. So that’s exactly why sy B makes and sells bed canopies. That’s all getting. Oh, thank you. Yeah. But getting back to your question, what do I think about? I mean, so you raised a lot of points in that question. So you’re right, what can you do about it, there’s nothing that you can do, except, you know, buy less smart tech. And this is the thing that I tried to convey to people when they asked me about 5g, because 5g, as you noted, raised a lot of questionable concerns. Some I believe, are valid many are not the reason it’s different, right. The reason it right, it was it had this potential for controversy and misinformation, is because 5g is using frequencies that have never been used before in consumer products. Right? So whereas, you know, 2g, 3g, 4g, basically all use the same bands. 5g will eventually go up to 300 gigahertz, which is in the millimeter wave. And and these have just never been used before. So it’s different. And that creates this. Now, yes, it’s different. And it’s untested, right, just like I’ve been talking about with other technologies, we don’t know what the impacts will be in five years or 10 years. That said, you know, I think it’s pretty obvious, there’s going to be harm, right? So you do seem you do find concentrations of negative health outcomes at certain frequencies. So for instance, elf exposure, that is the low frequency extremely low frequency that you get from power lines, that is more tightly linked, you see, you see, you see leukemia manifesting from ELF exposure, more from ELF exposure than from others. Right. From FM radio, you see, you see melanomas forming that you don’t generally tend to see at the elf range. And those are just two quick examples. So you, you see clusters of disease manifests from exposures to different frequencies, but we know that disease is going to result. So we don’t know exactly which disease is going to be from these new frequencies. But I think it’s very safe for us to make an educated guess that we will continue to see negative health outcomes. Some of them are predictable. Like, the impact on fertility seems to happen on essentially every every frequency, but but others, you know, we won’t know which ones we’ll see. And we’ll learn them. But so but to me, that’s that that’s not the issue, right? Because we’re gonna have those problems if we just deployed more 4g instead of 5g Right. So, what is the problem with 5g? And this is what I want people to understand. It is it 5g is being marketed as a thing to to to make your experience faster to download a movie in five seconds, which literally no one needs to do. But that is how it’s being marketed. But that is not why it exists. The reason 5g exists is because they were running out of space on 4g, right?

There are the growth in the number of devices that have to connect to the network has been staggering. And they 4g just became congested. You couldn’t, you couldn’t support the number of nodes on the network with 4g that 5g does. So 5g is engineered, designed and engineered from the ground up to support multiple order of magnitude greater number of devices connected to it. This is what you sometimes hear of as the Internet of Things. Although I haven’t, I guess I haven’t heard that term so much anymore. But that’s, that’s what at least what they used to call it right where everything and this is what we were talking about literally everything in our lives becomes a wireless device that needs to connect to the network. Now, the reason I want to point this out is because each one of those things is a source of EMF. So the issue with 5g To me isn’t like, oh, we have a 5g tower out front, because you would have had a 4g tower out front or a 3g tower. The issue is that it is created this ability to explode the number of devices that connect wirelessly, which means we’re going to have many, many more sources in our lives. And that’s the part about 5g that I want people to be aware of. And that’s, again, why it’s so important to to act with intent. When you choose to add a wireless device to your life, make sure you are doing it with intent, that it is something that you will add tangible value to you. And that will, that you understand comes with a cost.

Raine Dunn 1:25:43
Yeah, that’s really great. Thank you so much for clarifying that, because it’s just one of those subjects where there was like a lot of crazy talk around it. So then you just don’t know what to think and what’s realized. I wanted to talk about EMF hypersensitivity.

R Blank 1:26:00
Okay, so what it’s the condition is often referred to as EHS or electro hypersensitivity or electromagnetic hypersensitivity. And effectively, people can think of it as an allergic response to EMF exposure. So just like, you know, there’s people who have fish allergies, and they can’t eat fish, or there’s peanut allergies, and they can’t even, you know, sometimes they can’t eat peanuts, but sometimes they can’t even be around peanuts or peanut oil. And you know, you and I, oh, actually, I don’t know, but I you know, I can eat peanuts and be fine and somebody else can have a little whiff of peanut oil and go into anaphylactic shock. Right. So the same, we are seeing the same situation around EMF exposure, where these people who suffer from this condition are experience, symptoms that can range from mild to extreme at at levels of exposure, where, you know, I can walk into a room and feel fine. And these people can walk into a room and suddenly be in excruciating pain. There’s a wide range of reported symptoms. So they range from sleep, disrupted sleep and anxiety, to rashes and joint pain to extreme migraine headaches. And and certain people have to give up effectively give up their lives, right, because they are so sensitive, that they can’t, there’s no way of mitigating their exposure enough and they have to go live in a very remote area and they can’t keep their jobs and they can’t make income. And it is it for people for certain people. It is it is a seriously debilitating condition. It because it is so poorly understood. It is hard to get firm numbers on how widespread this is. It There are estimates ranging from 5% of the population is EHS to over 30% of the population is EHS, one thing to keep in mind is think of the symptoms I just listed. These are symptoms that if someone has them, and they don’t think to think that EMF could be the source, they won’t realize that EMF is the cause of their migraines or their anxiety or their sleep disruption. But these are very widespread issues among humanity. And so there it is, not only is it poorly understood, it’s also not universally recognized. So for instance, Sweden recognizes this as a disability. But many other European countries do not. The United States doesn’t formally recognize it. However, in the United States, we have a thing called Medicare, which is government health insurance. And there is actually a billing code for electro symptoms triggered by electromagnetic exposure. So even though the government doesn’t recognize it as a debility, as a disability, there is a billing code that doctors can use to assign cases, which is it’s a bureaucratic thing, but it’s a recognition. It’s a bureaucratic recognition condition. There are certain facilities that treat EHS so we list several of them on the website. I never remember all of them, but the one I always remember is the Women’s College in Toronto, which has not only recognizes EHS but has pioneered a treatment regimen for EHS. So and the final note I want to make before it you may have follow ups on this is I think it’s intuitively you we are I believe we are going to see a significant rise in reported incidents of EHS because as EMF exposures and you just even ambient EMF exposures are increasing every year with the number of new devices and networks and so on and so forth. More and more people are necessarily going to be reaching that threshold at which they start to experience these symptoms. So that I believe it is we are only starting to the beginning to see the beginning of this issue and It is indicative of the harm the physiological harm, that this stuff causes that it can trigger these responses in certain populations doesn’t mean it’s not harming the rest of us. It just means they are more sensitive and they’re physiologically aware of the harm than then the rest of us are, there are also. So, you there are conditions that make you more susceptible to EHS. So for instance, if you have had Lyme disease, you are much more likely to suffer from EHS if you have MCs or multiple chemical sensitivity, you are more likely to suffer from EHS and vice versa. If you are EHS, you are more likely to suffer from multiple chemical sensitivity. And mold is another one of these triggers that can exacerbate can create or exacerbate EHS.

Raine Dunn 1:30:52
Yeah. I think this really sort of sums up a point that I’ve been hearing over and over again, as we’ve been having this conversation, that EMF falls into this umbrella of issues that we have today with the way that we’re living in the world where whereby we are seeing such a drastic increase in disease and illness. And my belief is that we can’t really pinpoint it on one single thing. It’s the prevalence of everything that we’re doing wrong with the way that EMFs chemicals, all of the toxins in our environments, like you mentioned, the mold as well. So we’ve got all of these things that cause all of these different diseases that, you know, people are then being told or it’s just genetic, or it just happens. And actually, it’s the way that we’re living today.

R Blank 1:31:50
Totally. Yeah, the way I often say we, I mean, I’m not the only one who says it. But the way I phrase it is, we live in an increasingly toxic world. And I mean that both metaphorically, and literally, the number of toxins that are in our lives, day to day, moment to moment just continues to grow. And toxins are toxic. So I totally agree with you there. It’s not that EMF is the cause of all of these issues. But EMF is a really big toxin that is growing exponentially every year. But it is just one of many toxins, that and the exposure to each one of these toxins is going to have an impact on our physiological resilience. And that then in turn makes us more susceptible to other toxins to which we are being exposed.

Raine Dunn 1:32:41
Exactly. So it’s like it’s the toxic load. And other guests that I had on the podcast, describe it as a bucket. So your body can handle so much toxicity and a detoxes. But once you reach reach the top of the bucket, it starts spilling over. And that’s when you experience disease and illness. And the reason that this points were so interesting for me personally is because I’ve been experiencing some health issues over the last couple of years, which in the last few months have gotten progressively worse. And there were sort of quote unquote, unexplained symptoms, one of the major ones being chronic fatigue. And I believe that I’ve gotten to the root of the issue, and I understand what I need to do now. But when I heard this, it just made me think well, how do I know that it’s not that or that that is contributing somewhere to it? Because through this process, what I’ve been doing is realizing that my toxic bucket has now reached its limits. So therefore, I need to limit any other toxins in my environment as much as I can. And that’s why I’ve been becoming more aware of the EMFs because I know that because my body’s in a compromised state at the moment, I am going to be more sensitive to the EMFs what I really wanted to ask you but I don’t know if you can even answer this question is how would one know if you have what was it

R Blank 1:34:03
EHS EHS? So I personally don’t know an answer to that. I do know that. Like I was mentioning the Women’s College in Toronto, they are in a position they and I don’t I don’t know their rubric. I don’t know their protocol, but they offer EHS diagnosis. So I don’t know how they do it. But it is possible and they are not the only facility in the world that does that. So again, I don’t I don’t have that list memorized. But I do have it on my website. So if you go to shield your body.com and click on the search box, and I can I can try to actually I can I can get you the link and you can put it in the show notes so people can just but there’s a there’s a we have a list of I think nine different facilities around the world that I know wreck provide diagnosis and treatment for for EHS.

Raine Dunn 1:34:52
Hmm, yeah, I mean, just for me, I would think that a way to discover for yourself is just to take yourself out of the city. go somewhere with a Wi Fi,

R Blank 1:35:02
of course you’re improved. That’s true. So alright, so that’s, that is actually what I advise people when they reach out to me with that question, but even so, when you do that you’re removing yourself from a whole suite of toxic. Exactly,

Raine Dunn 1:35:16
yeah. So, and there’s gonna be all sorts of other benefits, like just the fresh air and the sunshine. Yeah, so I believe

R Blank 1:35:23
that almost everybody has some degree of like, because I don’t consider myself EHS. But I know that when I’m in city. Yeah, my sleep is awful. My sleep is awful in cities. Now, I didn’t I don’t think it used to be that way. Like I went to college and in New York City, like literally in Manhattan, like the city is city of the world. And I don’t remember this being an issue back then. But now I you know, I’m older. And and the technology has also changed. You know, we didn’t have cell phone towers everywhere and Wi Fi networks everywhere when I was in college, but I can’t go to a city now without having my sleep severely disrupted. And I believe that is in large part due to EMF. But I don’t know that for sure. I just believe that. And I still don’t consider myself EHS even though clearly I am reacting with a sensitivity to these exposures. But I believe almost everybody has some degree of this.

Raine Dunn 1:36:20
Yeah, let me know. You know, the health issues that I’m experiencing are more severe and at times are debilitating. But say for example, my son has really bad sinus issues and has had his whole life. And we just can’t figure it out. We can’t figure out what the cause is. And what’s really interesting to me, which I’ve discovered lately is that his sinuses are so bad that he can’t breathe through his nose. So he’s a mouth breather. But that’s only true during the day. I recently discovered that when he goes to sleep at night, his nose clears up completely. Okay, I can actually tape his mouth closed and he can breathe perfectly.

R Blank 1:36:58
Does he know you’re going into his room? Stealing orifices

Raine Dunn 1:37:04
taping for myself as well. Yeah. So I mean, I just found it interesting when I heard about this. And I thought, well, maybe that’s what’s causing his sinus sinus issues that he’s having like this allergic reaction to all of the EMF. I don’t know.

R Blank 1:37:22
Yeah, I had really bad sinus issues in my 20s. And I think it was due to mold in an apartment I was renting. It was it that was horrible. That was really depressing. phase of my life, when you’re constantly getting sinus infections, and they are really, really bad.

Raine Dunn 1:37:39
No, it’s horrible. It’s just not not fun for him at all. What are your thoughts on having an EMF meter for home use is the value?

R Blank 1:37:48
Yes, yes, I am a huge advocate for that. So right, when when you have a cell phone in your pocket, you know, you need to move the cell phone further away from you, right, if that’s not a big mystery, when you are running Wi Fi, you know, turning off Wi Fi will reduce your EMF exposure, not a big mystery. But beyond that, beyond those obvious things, people would be shocked at at, right because EMF is invisible, it is odorless, you can’t see it, touch it, feel it, smell it, it’s a completely invisible force. And so you have no again, with the exceptions of these obvious sources, you have no idea how much you are being exposed to. And unless you get a decent quality meter and learn how to use it for testing. And I’ll give I’ll give a couple of examples here. So it could be because a lot of the your EMF exposure at home can come from inside your walls, right from the wiring. They don’t, the electricians aren’t taught to minimize EMF. And they don’t even test to see if the way they’ve routed the wiring. Right, if it crossed if one wire crosses over another wire, and that leads to a big spike in EMF emissions from that one point in the wall, like you wouldn’t know that the electrician wouldn’t know that they’re not expected to that’s not a failure of the electrician. And so there are parts of your walls that will just have much higher EMF levels than other parts of your walls, which means for instance, you want to move your couch, you know, away from there. So you could it could be the case where if you moved your couch, two feet to the right, that your whole family’s EMF exposure is way lower than it would be and you won’t know that unless you have a good meter and use it to test and so I’m a big advocate for this. I have a really good guide. It’s one it’s the only resource like it that I’ve I’ve even seen and it’s it’s like a 70 page guide. It’s free to download and it is I explain what EMF testing is I explained the different types of EMF, I then recommend a set of meters, you only need to buy one, but I don’t just give one recommendation I let people choose. Now the important thing to realize is you have to spend on the order of 150 100. ad dollars US in order to get a decent meter, if you’re spending less than that you’re not getting a meter that is worth getting. But you don’t need to spend 1000s of dollars or 10s of 1000s of dollars, you could spend like 150 bucks and get a decent quality, a decent quality meter that is sufficient for you to start engaging in this. So then the in the guide, I explained how to perform testing. And then I also provide guidelines and benchmarks on what levels how to understand the levels because the units you get off of these things are pretty confusing units that most people have never encountered before, like microwatts per square centimeter, or millivolt, or, you know, things like that people don’t know. So I provide guidance on those. And, and some of that, by the way, comes from the building Biology Institute, because they have, they have exposure recommendations, but there’s other safety standards that I cite in the in the book as well. So that is I have a huge if you are serious about EMF, you need a meter, because you’re not going to know what your exposure is. I’ll give you a second example. Actually, I was staying in an Airbnb about two years ago. And I you know, because I’m me, I brought my meters. And

and I just was taking measurements around and you know, things were fine. And then I got to this one spot. And the electric fields, were off the charts like crazy off the charts, like what is going on here. And I did some digging, and I realized that it was the DVD player, like plugged into the TV, it was just the D ID. And I don’t know what was wrong with this thing. But it was giving off insane levels of electric fields, I would not have known that. Had I not taken the meter and test. And so what I did is I implied we weren’t even using the DVD player. So I just unplugged the DVD player, it stayed unplugged for the duration of our of our stay in that apartment. But that that that was to me, that was just crazy. And I think it’s a great example. Because you don’t think to go look for the DVD player the same way that you think about your cell phone, but and I would have not known had I not tested. Also, meters are a really good way to know if your EMF protection products are actually working. So that was actually the original impetus for me writing the book, the ebook was so that I could give a guide to cars because, you know, you get people trying to test, you know, I get people trying to test my products. And a lot of them are doing it wrong. And so I decided to write an e book so that people can have a guide for how to actually do this. And then it’s grown. It’s now in the sixth edition. So each each year I add to it, add more information, more details. And so that’s how that’s how that book emerged. That

Raine Dunn 1:43:02
sounds like a really great resource. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you and I think that like that’s the major problem is that EMF is this invisible sort of a amorphous thing. And I think that’s why a lot of people are quite dismissive of it, or don’t either don’t believe that it’s an issue or don’t really want to give it too much thought. Because if you do start thinking about it, it hurts your brain.

R Blank 1:43:23
Yeah, well, so it’s complicated. Like you just said, it is also emitted by what not only is it complicated, it’s also invisible, right. So those are two challenges. But then you add to it that people love the things that expose them to EMF. And so there’s and as we were talking about, increasingly they are addicted to these things. So there’s this implicit reflex to not want to care to not want to believe it to not accept it. Because Because of those three factors, and it is also easy to obscure by by corporate interests, who fund science in certain ways to generate specific results that support their their with the message they want to tell, which is the same thing that the tobacco companies did for four decades, which is fun science that shows no harm. And then just rely on that say there’s Oh, it’s an open question. It’s an open debate. There’s no definitive proof and let people just it meanwhile, the exposures just keep it so this is different from tobacco, right? Because with tobacco, you you weren’t seeing exponential growth in smoking year after year after year. But we are right now. So every year that regulation is successfully delayed every year where they are muddying the science is another year we’re not only we’re not reducing exposures, but the exposures are growing at this insane rate.

Raine Dunn 1:44:51
Yeah, and it’s something that you know, like say for example, with a tobacco back in the day, you could smoke anyway, so yes, we will being exposed to it. but you could still go home and not be exposed to it or, you know, you could limit your exposure somewhat. Whereas I think today if you live in a city, there’s not really that much that you can do to omit that, that general ambient exposure to EMF, that’s correct.

R Blank 1:45:15
Yeah, the only the only form of protection that works against ambient sources out in the world, like when you’re at home, you can engage in certain like, we were talking about shielding paints and canopies, and you can do certain things at home. But out in the real world, the only things that you can do to protect against ambient exposures are EMF, shielding apparel. And those the they are imperfect because you’re still going to have parts of your body exposed, right, you’re not going to go out and a hazmat an EMF shielded hazmat suit. So they’re imperfect, and they are expensive. But that is really the only form of protection that works out in the real world.

Raine Dunn 1:45:55
You’ve mentioned some of your products. Would you like to share a little bit more on what products you have available? For sure.

R Blank 1:46:01
Well, thank you. Yeah. So all of my products are based on EMF shielding technology, which is, it’s universally accepted. It’s almost 200 years old since Michael Faraday invented the first Faraday cage and what he showed is that if you weave certain conductive metals into certain patterns, it will block and deflect EMF radiation in the other direction. So just like a window, shade, block sunlight, EMF shielding blocks, EMF radiation, so in the intervening you know, almost 200 years, we’ve gotten really good at making that that those conductive metals into really, really small fibers, so you can actually weave them into fabrics. And so you can create these sets of products that utilize this technology. So for instance, my phone pouch which is my most popular product, is a pouch for your phone, you put your phone in it, the back of the pouch is lined with shielding material and the front isn’t and that allows your phone to continue communicating, sending and receiving signals while deflecting radiation away from your body. So that product makes it safer to carry your phone in your pocket or on your belt. I mentioned the product I have for smartwatches which is why we call it the the s yp wristband. And that is it’s it’s a wristband that’s made out of this similar this the same type of shielding fabric, and it goes on on your wrist designed to go under your smartwatch. And that bat deflects the smartwatch radiation away from your body. We have a catalog now and I also have sorry, one more thing I mentioned the canopies. So the canopies are increasingly popular as people are trying to seek some relief over the night. So it forms a complete because it includes floor mats. So it forms a complete 360 by 360 degree k, it’s essentially a fabric Faraday cage, it’s made out of silver, and you put it around your bed, and that creates a safer space for you to sleep and rejuvenate and rebuild your health overnight. So we have about two dozen products now. And they’re all available at shield, your body.com. And again, they all are based on the shielding technology, which is not only like a universally accepted, it’s also verifiable by you if you have a decent quality EMF meter. And we also have lab testing on every single one of our products. We are the only EMF protection company in the world that I’m aware of that has laboratory test data on every single one of our products, not just one of our products. So that that is that is the short version of what I can say yeah,

Raine Dunn 1:48:44
I think that the bed canopy is such a great idea because like you said, we’re not going to go out into the world and a hazmat suits. And I think for the majority of people, even just a lot of what we spoken about is like a bit too much. Like they’re not. They don’t want to go to that much effort. But I think if you can at least make your sleeping area a safe space.

R Blank 1:49:03
Yeah, makes a big difference. Because it’s such a huge chunk of your day. And it is an important chunk physiologically, an important chunk of your day. Yeah, or one last thing. I don’t only I think as I started, it’s it’s been a long conversation. Sorry. But I think I started off by saying how much I focus on education. So my website is not just a store. We have tons of articles, videos, podcast episodes, webinar archives with experts and guests. There is a time so if you want to learn about EMF radiation. That is that yeah, my website is a great place to do that.

Raine Dunn 1:49:41
Awesome. Thank you so much. I one little question that I forgot to ask you earlier on. I love to listen to podcasts when I’m driving in my car. So what I’ve been doing lately is I try to download them at home before I start driving but I’m connecting to my phone’s audio through Bluetooth. So, how bad is that? And should I rather not connect?

R Blank 1:50:07
Yes, you should, if you care about your EMF exposure, you should be using Wi Fi. In fact, we just put a new car radio. In our car, it had been it had been broken into a while back. And we we paid extra to get the version that came without bluetooth, because the only version that came without bluetooth, it cost more. And we did that. And it has an aux and auxiliary jack. So we can run that. So that’s how, that’s how we play audio in the car. So I actually

Raine Dunn 1:50:39
I started using the auxiliary a little while ago. And then what happened? I think I took my car for service. So I took everything out of the car, including the Aux wire, and then I forgot to put it back. So now I’m using the Bluetooth again. Yeah.

R Blank 1:50:53
Yeah, no. So if you’re, you know, it’s not possible really to answer How bad is it for you. But the the how do i the productive way that I would engage that question is if EMF exposure matters to you, then you want to eliminate all of the exposures that you can eliminate, while still enjoying the quality of life that you want to enjoy?

Raine Dunn 1:51:16
Yeah, I think that’s a really great way of putting it that every little bit that you can minimize is going to make a difference overall, right?

R Blank 1:51:22
Yes, yeah, yes. But they’re a little more context on on your question, or an answer a little more context on the answer to your question is that Bluetooth radiation is essentially the same as Wi Fi radiation, just lower powered, because Wi Fi has to be able to, I don’t know the full spec, but it has to be able to transmit over about 100 to 150 feet, right? That’s what, whereas Bluetooth is really designed to only communicate over depending on which client over five to 30 feet. So it’s a lower powered form of Wi Fi.

Raine Dunn 1:51:55
So if you’re in a situation where you need to, or you could choose between using Wi Fi and using Bluetooth, it would be better to choose Bluetooth.

R Blank 1:52:02
Yes. Okay. In general, yes. Yeah. And similarly, if you have the choice between using a cell connection cell data versus Wi Fi, it’s better to use Wi Fi. Because the the Wi Fi is lower power than the cell card, the cell modem.

Raine Dunn 1:52:20
Okay, so if you’re eliminating Wi Fi in your home, but then you’re using the cell phone.

R Blank 1:52:26
Yeah, so this is where it gets eliminated. Yeah, if you’re eliminating Wi Fi in your home, don’t turn it back on just for what I’m talking about here. Okay, you have Wi Fi in your home, then using the Wi Fi on your phone is better than using the cell network.

Raine Dunn 1:52:40
Okay, gotcha. Because the cell phone has to try to travel. So tremors. Right. Okay, so anything that transmits less far is going to be slightly better. Yes. Okay. I just have one more question. What would be your ideal future outcome? With regards to all of everything? We’ve been talking about the tech and the EMFs? And everything? What is your hope? Like? Oh, I don’t know if you have kids, but what would you want to see No,

R Blank 1:53:09
I do not I do not have children. So, okay, I am not. So what I would like to see happen is significant regulatory change, where safety standards are formulated based around the scientific knowledge that we have, which means that EMF exposures are regulated to be much, much, much lower than they are right now. Part of that is I would like to see technology as an industry regulated more aggressively, both in terms of the experiences that they are marketing to people, as well as the environmental impact, not just from EMF but the the environmental devastation that has flowing from tech waste is and I know that’s, that’s, again, that’s off topic from EMF, but it’s all based around this thing where we just can’t get well, we can’t regulate technology, we are institutionally right now, structurally set up in a way where we can not regulate technology. And EMF is a big part of that. And I would like to see that happen now, am I optimistic that that will happen? No, I am not optimistic that that will happen, which is why I spend so much time advocating for personal control, you you you are not going to get rid of the cells. I mean, there are certain people, particularly at the local level, who are experiencing success in terms of for instance, preventing a cell tower from going up or preventing a cell tower from going up on a school which or hospital right you can make that you can have those types of limited impacts. But overall, you are not going to single handedly change your ambient EMF exposure unless the only way you can do that is by moving that’s really all you can control. So really what I like focusing on is building awareness of this issue. And then showing people the ways in which they can make really big changes in their personal exposure even as To the ambient levels are going going up every every year. So, guess what I would like to see. And this isn’t just because of EMF, EMF is a big part of it. But I would like to see technology be much more heavily regulated because it is become a very harmful destructive, it’s not purely harmful, destructive force technology adds a ton of value. And it’s it’s the basis of our entire economy in our entire society. So I am not anti tech, but it is it is it has been running roughshod over society now for decades, and it is getting worse. And so that is the outcome I would like to see. But I am not optimistic that we will see it, particularly in that it states where you can’t right now, you can’t get anything significant done. Even the at the federal level, the government is effectively in a continuous war with itself. And everything is effectively meaningful change is effectively blocked at every level. And so that is, unfortunately, the situation that I see. I apologize. And I apologize for being a downer at the end of the conversation.

Raine Dunn 1:56:09
I mean, everything’s driven by and controlled by profit rights. Yeah, I mean, I have a very optimistic dream that because, you know, when I speak out on subjects like this, and other things that I speak out on, people sometimes assume that I’m anti the modern world, and that I just want to go back to like, living in the wilderness, which sometimes I feel like I want to do, but realistically, you know, my hope for the future. And I know that this will not happen in our lifetime, our hope that it will start to happen, at least for my son is that technology will go more the way of being more in line with nature, and the natural order of the world. So utilizing technologies, like Nikola Tesla came up with instead of those things being suppressed, and, you know, it’s been hypothesized that, in the future, a mycelium network could function to run the internet instead of actual hardwiring. So those are the type of things that I’m hopeful for in the future.

R Blank 1:57:11
That’s great. Optimism.

Raine Dunn 1:57:14
I think that technology is great. But I would love for us to be able to use technology in a way that is not so damaging to our physical and mental health. And that rather, it really, truly improves the quality of our lives, not just in the I think the very surface way that it does at the moment with all of those negative effects coming with it.

R Blank 1:57:37
Yes, I totally agree.

Raine Dunn 1:57:41
Cool, thank you so much are thank you for your time. I know we went way over, I really appreciate your enthusiasm and your passion on the subjects. And you’re you’re very diligent way of answering all the questions. Appreciate it.

R Blank 1:57:56
Thank you. I really appreciate you. You’re having me on helping allowing me to communicate with your audience and I appreciate your interest in this in this subject. It’s clear that this matters to you and I it’s always a pleasure to talk with someone when that’s the case.

Raine Dunn 1:58:09
Awesome. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, as always, I would so appreciate if you share it. Share it with your friends, your loved ones shared on whatsapp on social media, give it a like rated on whichever platform you’re listening. All of those things will help me with getting the podcast out to broader audience. If you’d like to get in touch with me my instagram handle is at brain dark done. Or you can email me on rain at rain dan.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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R Blank
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